Paternity tests in France banned (more or less)

[Annie11111]

'' Any paternity testing without a court order is banned, due to the official desire to "preserve the peace" within French families, with the French government citing psychologists who state that fatherhood is determined by coexistence rather than biology. French men often circumvent these laws by sending samples of DNA to foreign laboratories, but risk prosecution if caught. The maximum penalty for carrying out secret paternity testing is one year in prison and a €15,000 fine ''

What's your opinion on this? I think it's very disturbing and can't comprehend how it can happen in a 2014 EU country . I also don't see how it's a feminist issue like many are implying.

[AICM]

The French have not banned them.
Why did you feel the need to lie?

[Annie11111]

www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCodeArticle.do?idArticle=LEGIARTI000024325278&cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006070719

''Le fait de rechercher l'identification par ses empreintes génétiques d'une personne en dehors des cas prévus à l'article 16-11 du code civil ou en dehors d'une mesure d'enquête ou d'instruction diligentée lors d'une procédure de vérification d'un acte de l'état civil entreprise par les autorités diplomatiques ou consulaires dans le cadre des dispositions de l'article L. 111-6 du code de l'entrée et du séjour des étrangers et du droit d'asile est puni d'un an d'emprisonnement ou de 15 000 euros d'amende.''

Google translation :

''The endeavor to identify its DNA of a person except as provided in section 16-11 of the Civil Code or outside of a measure of inquiry or investigation conducted in a procedure verification of an act of the company by the diplomatic or consular authorities under the provisions of Article L. 111-6 of the Code of Entry and Stay of Aliens and Asylum is Vital penalty of one year imprisonment or a fine of € 15,000.''

Like I said in the title and the OP, more or less. It involves a metric ton of bureaucracy and a bloody court order to get it done. Where am I lying?

[ArsenicFaceCream]

Men covertly taking swabs from toddlers' cheeks and receiving the 'results' by post doesn't strike me as a desirable way of dealing with these things TBH.

The legislation essentially ensures that testing happens under court supervision, as far as I can see. Sounds sensible to me.

It's not a ban.

[AICM]

Your title was deliberately misleading. The tests are to be more tightly regulated to avoid the vey undesirable type of actions that AFC describes.

“Banning” something and “tightly regulating” something are not the same.

Lots of medicines are tightly regulated in this country but they're clearing not banned.

[AICM]

"Clearly" not "clearing"

[Annie11111]

Yes but getting the woman involved and going through a shitload of bureaucracy will also ''disturb the peace'' of french families, wouldn't you say so? And if those labs are legally approved, what's wrong with them or different from getting a HIV or any other medical test? If anything, making this so hard to obtain will drive men to use dubious services that will not very scientifically accurate .

And I still don't see why so many think this is a feminist issue. If a man is gonna spend the next 20 years or so of your life raising a child and investing vast amounts of care, time and resources into it, why not be sure it's actually his?

[PetulaGordino]

if you don't think it's a feminist issue why are you posting in in the FWR section?

[AICM]

I think some, but not all, of the points you made there may have some validity. I was really taking issue with deliberately misleading title.

[LynetteScavo]

yes, if you don't think it's a feminist issue, why is it in this topic?

I don't think I'd want anyone covertly taking a swab from my child, tbh. The other scenario is a mother covertly taking a swap from a man (EastEnders style) or a man and the mother both wanting to determine whether the man is the father (Jeremy Kyle style)

[CaptChaos]

Your 2 latest threads haven't been feminist issues. Why do you persist in posting threads here?

Covertly taking a swab for the purposes of DNA testing is pretty low, whatever the outcome of the test. Why not just try talking?

[Annie11111]

I don't think it is a feminist issue so I'm asking why do you think so many (mainly MRA'S and misogynist types) think it is.

For people who think it shouldn't be done ''casually'', how about this : it is done right after birth by the 'proper authorities' right after the baby is born. That will not only give the father peace of mind but also be extremely helpful for the baby since knowing his/her genetic family history could save his/her life in the future when faced with a tough diagnosis.

[PetulaGordino]

your suggestion is also one made by MRAs, so is that your position?

[CaptChaos]

Yup, because trust and talking are just too difficult.

Maybe post this in AIBU? They love goady fuckery like this there.

[ApocalypseThen]

That will not only give the father peace of mind but also be extremely helpful for the baby since knowing his/her genetic family history could save his/her life in the future when faced with a tough diagnosis

I didnt expect to see the argument that women are mainly liars here.

[Annie11111]

I didnt expect to see the argument that women are mainly liars here.

Paternity fraud has been measured at anything from 1 to 14% depending on country or culture. Over the long term that is countless millions of babies.. and their fathers raising them not knowing their partner is a despicable human being. Most women, like most men, are decent people, it's the ones who aren't that need to be exposed .

[almondcakes]

Does it really matter that much if a child is carrying your genes?

If one of mine turned out not to be mine, I would be concerned as to what had happened to the babythat was mine, but I wouldn't love my children any less.

I don't see why the genetics of a child are that big a deal.

[PetulaGordino]

what do you think should happen to those women who are "exposed"?

[AICM]

I'm not saying this to be nasty but after reading your posts on this and other threads I not sure that you're a woman. I find it odd that a women would talk about other women as a despicable human being on a feminist board.

almond: if I were a man it would matter a very great deal indeed.

[AdoraBell]

So, without regulation what's to stop a man who has decided that having children is inconvenient sending off a swab from another child to "prove" he isn't the father?

I think this is a good move.

Of course not everyone would try to rig a DNA test to get out of parental responsibility but I wouldn't trust everyone who does a test behind the other parent's back to be 100% honest.

[Annie11111]

Of course any test that involved long term consequences should involve the authorities and the proper channels. I'm not saying a guy should be able to show up with a ''DNA tests r us'' sample and get out of child support.

AICM,

A woman who cheats and has a baby with another man while pretending it's her DP's baby is not despicable? All cheaters and liars are horrible, men or women.

[AICM]

Annie

I really do find there to be something "odd" about your comments and your wording. I can't put my finger on it but to me I feel you sometimes post just to get a reaction rather than start an intelligent debate.

[almondcakes]

AICM, why should it matter to a man more than to a woman if a child was carrying their genes?

[ArsenicFaceCream]

Of course any test that involved long term consequences should involve the authorities and the proper channels.

Good, that's settled then. So the french law is fine with you?

[TurnOverTheTv]

You do seem to have a lot of time on your hands Annie. You've started quite a lot of threads today. All with a rather odd tone.

[CaptChaos]

8 in the last few days.

I've had a lot of time on my hands too.

Less now that I've had my phone interview!