Can we talk about the line, "I didn't mean it literally"

[OutsSelf]

So, just looked at this; and made the mistake of looking at the comments, many of which were so beyond the pale the Guardian mods have removed them. Anyway, the thing is, Michael Fabricant 'joked' about punching Yasmin Alibhai-Brown in the throat. Because she's so annoying. Of course there is a minor shit storm about it, but his line and that of his defenders is of course I didn't mean it literally. Which I do believe but don't buy as a full stop on such matters. I've heard this argument in a lot of contexts and want to rehearse how to express how very inadequate it is, and why it's not acceptable to employ figurative violence even 'as a joke,' and what role such 'jokes' take in the patriarchy.

One thing I did think was this is a way of reminding women of the tenuousness of their safety; granted through the graciousness of men, don't overstep your mark! And also, that it is almost a "say what you like, I'm the privileged one here" because it names the violence of female oppression. It's like Fabricant insinuating that she might win an argument but he'd win a fight (only because she hasn't been to my staff class yet, btw). And my question to people who say stuff like, I didn't mean it literally! Is, well what did you mean, then?

Help me rehearse how to reason this out?

[SarcyMare]

"One thing I did think was this is a way of reminding women of the tenuousness of their safety;"

these things are said as often about men as women, so not really sure i agree with that specific line, but do the rest of it.
this has taken me ages to write, hope i haven't majorly cross posted.

[StewiesBack]

It's just yet more male violence that men then pretend is a "joke" as if women are too stupid to know that actually women are punched in the throat by men on a daily basis; that this actually happens to real women. I had a massive rant about it on on my blog as I'm sick to death of men pretending male violence isn't something that women experience every single freaking day.

[whereisshe]

It doesn't matter if it wasn't meant literally, that's a bullshit minimising excuse. It's a kind of victim blaming very popular with bullies - "you're upset because you're weak and not cool enough to get the joke". Bollocks to that - it's upsetting because it's a horrible thing to say. Any normal person would think so.

I also think "why would you"? It's not funny, it's not nice, it's not socially acceptable. There are lots of ways to attack someone and point out how much you don't like them without resorting to actual or fictional violence.

And yes, I do think there is a feminism angle on this. Bullies prey on the weak, and in a physical violence scenario women are almost always the weaker party.

[whereisshe]

Also, I think the specific nature of the threat is very much about power - the throat is very sensitive, and you don't hit it unless you really want to hurt someone. We're not talking about giving someone a dead arm in a playground sense here.

There's also the visual imagery. Intent doesn't come across when people hear it and see in their minds eye something like (for example) Saatchi grabbing Nigella's throat. The more we are exposed to violence the more normal it becomes, which is why I don't think it's funny to joke about it.

[sausageeggbacon11]

Having read the tweet and it's two part implication we can assume that he is not expecting his brain to blow up which would indicate to the average person that the whole statement is meant tongue in cheek.

What terrifies me is that said to a male journalist it would have been ignored but we women are so weak and feeble that we need to be defended from something that has no intention of being real?

[LoveSardines]

I don't think it would considered acceptable for an MP to say he was going to punch a male in the throat either, sausages.

And the prevalence of violent / sexually violent threats against women simply for having the gall to have an opinion, is something that needs looking at.

[StewiesBack]

Every time I read someone dismiss the valid concerns of others, I wonder how many times civil rights leaders have heard the same stupid refrain over the years.

[illcounttothree]

He didn't mean it literally? Well, how was he going to metaphorically punch her in the throat?

whereisshe - you're right. This is exactly the sort of thing nasty, gobshite bullies say when they've been pulled up on their nasty, gobshitey, bullying behaviour and are feeling foolish because people are now staring at them.

[OutsSelf]

There's actually nothing funny about this, am I right? You don't have to be a humourless feminist to fail to see the joke, surely? Why would punching someone in the throat be funny?

I don't see this as us all thinking women are too weak and can't be subject to the same macho bullshit that men do to each other. In the first place, I don't think male MPs casually 'joke' about violence against other male MPs. Secondly, male violence against women actually injures, maims and kills women every day in our country, so it's not some random wild comment that has no undercurrent, reflection or relation to actual violence and the violence of gender oppression. Thirdly, the fact that men as a class perpetrate violence against women as a class facilitates female oppression which this specific man benefits from and this specific woman is disadvantaged by.

Can you imagine that a white person made a joke that they if they had to listen to another thing that Darcus Howe said they were going to put a burning cross in his lawn? Because of the actuality of male violence against women, and the role of that violence in the oppression of women on a day to day basis in our culture, I interpret this joke to be in the direct service of patriarchy in the same way that we would assume that the hypothetical white person would be making a racist comment.

I suppose it's just another indication of how we just don't view sexism as serious, despite the fact that it kills, injures, maims, stymies, silences and oppresses women every single day.

[StewiesBack]

This article post on Everyday Victim Blaming is about a woman's personal experience of domestic violence and why this "joke" is so harmful to women.

I like this one on political correctness, jokes and "context" as well.

[vesuvia]

The BBC News website has the following quote from David Cameron:

"Let's be clear, it's a completely unacceptable thing to say and it's right that he apologised and he retracted and he apologised fully ... I think further action isn't necessary, but no-one should be in any doubt that it's just not an acceptable thing to say and Michael Fabricant knows that that is my view and I don't want to see this happen again."

How far beyond "completely unacceptable" does something have to be before the leader of a political party considers the situation serious enough to take disciplinary action against one of his MPs?

Does David Cameron think that Michael Fabricant's remarks were merely a more colourful way of echoing Cameron's own allegedly "jokey" comment of "Calm down dear", and therefore nothing to get too worked up about?

Will David Cameron's comments and inaction do anything to make anyone think twice before making similar "completely unacceptable" comments in the future? I very much doubt it. Thanks for nothing, David.

[OutsSelf]

The "take it in context" article is great, really clear thinking. It's part of that whole rationalisation, I didn't mean it literally, I've been taken out of context... when the fact is, objections to such jokes are about putting them in the context of male violence against women.

I also really hate the whole "offense" narrative, it's so minimising, just as the article points out. It's like a wilful misunderstanding of what has been offended, or what offense means, to assume that such reactions are about an individual person saying, "how dare you?!" I don't feel offended by this comment, I am angry because I believe it offends standard of respect in public discourse, I believe it offends the personhood of Y A-B, and it offends public discourse which must depend on equality between speakers by asserting inequality between those speakers. I am not personally offended, I am enraged.

Rod Liddle is such a shit, I just have to share that massive insight with you all.

[turbonerd]

It is such an offensive thing to say. No, not funny In the least. Very specific too. No attempt at dressing it up on cartoon-style language Even. At least now we do know what be wants to do to Women With An Opinion. Sorry about typos, phone is bananas.

[cheminotte]

Isn't there some research showing people who use violent language are more likely to be violent in real life?

My ex-boss told me he had wanted to run after me and bang my head against the wall after something I'd not said. Dp was shocked and told me to tell HR. I did. He's still there. I'm not.