Why do we need men

[AICM]

Not what you’re thinking!

I mean why do we need men to make sexist comments when so many women seem to do such a good job on their behalf?

I teach in a Primary School were the staff are 90% female. Here is a flavour of just some of the many comments I’ve heard recently:

When a woman applied to be our new caretaker “We need a man to fix things surely?”

When discussing a young female member of staff the word “slut” is used a lot.

When a man bought a new Ford Ka “That’s girl’s car!”

Passing endless negative comments about other woman’s weight and appearance.

Referring to the office staff as “the girls in the office”.

“One of the male teachers should run the football team. It’s man’s job.”

“I’d hate to work for a female head. Female bosses are always bitches.”

“Why would a man want to teach the little ones? They’d never cope!” (At our school a man does the teach little ones and he’s brilliant)

When a male TA (teaching assistant) was appointed the other TAs were angry because they didn’t a want a man in the resource room when they were working in there.

And the best one, remember this is coming from a teacher, “Girls aren’t good at maths.”

Just about the only people who are not sexist are the men!

I do challenge these comments when I hear them but it’s so awful that they make them in the first place.

[decupatawo]

So what's your proposed solution? Exterminate all men?

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

I have been feeling the urge towards separatism today, I admit.

I dunno, I think it's not very surprising women would be sexist. We're conditioned to be. All the stereotypes are reinforcing it: women are 'bitchy' and never really friends, etc.

Men can afford to be less sexist because they get massive kudos for being the 'nice guy'. Etc.

[ezinma]

Yes, it's not surprising, women's magazines are full of similar rubbish. Let's bond over our tiny helplessness. We're governed by rules that are beyond our control, so let's react by inventing arbitrary rules of our own that we can police ourselves.

It's tiring and self-defeating, but it doesn't happen by accident.

[scallopsrgreat]

As LRD says we are all conditoned to be sexist. But what you are mentioning, although hurtful and nasty is pretty small fry comapred with what men do to women. It is also just upholding the gender stereotypes that men have put in place. Unfortunately you'll always find women wanting to do men's work for them. It gives them some level of status in a patriarchy and prevents them coming to terms with their cognitive dissonance.

However, if men weren't sexist (or misogynistic) there wouldn't be any sexism.

[TheSameBoat]

Decupatawo, did you actually read the OP? She was focusing on women, not men.

OP, I think part of the reason is that it feels so much better to go along with the flow of society than against it. If you believe the world makes sense the way it is that is a lot easier to handle than the depression that comes when you see the reality.

And sometimes I think some women throw themselves into it with a certain gusto because it raises their status if they adopt the values of the "in group". It also establishes their distance from those whinging feminists who are, let's face it, very unpopular.

[Montmorency1]

"However, if men weren't sexist (or misogynistic) there wouldn't be any sexism."

I'd like to hear how you defend this assertion as logically tenable.

"We're governed by rules that are beyond our control"

All humans are governed by rules that are beyond their control. The bondage we are born into is the very bondage that we cannot see.

[scallopsrgreat]

Well men set up the power structures between men and women. If they tore them down again or stopped adhering to them then they wouldn't be there would they? Pretty simple really.

[Nocomet]

This is why both my and DD1 tend to find chatting to men easy and women/girls sodding hard work. M

Far too many women are gossipy, appearance obsessed and unpleasant to other women.

[AuntieStella]

One bit of a 'proposed' solution would be to stop referring to grown women as "girls".

And to cut out unnecessarily gendered statements wherever possible. I thought it worrying that so many of OP's examples were school specific. Children pay attention to what teachers say. And therefore greater care is needed by those working with small children.

[Montmorency1]

"Well men set up the power structures between men and women. If they tore them down again or stopped adhering to them then they wouldn't be there would they? Pretty simple really."

Of course, this reasoning will be quite familiar to anyone with knowledge of the anti-Semites who a century ago proselytized the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and claimed that the financial and professional success of the global Jewry indicated a coordinated international conspiracy for world domination...

[scallopsrgreat]

What are you rabbiting on about Mont?

[Montmorency1]

Women must be changed as well. Pretty simple really.

[scallopsrgreat]

Why must women be changed (which sounds rather sinister and Borg-like)? Why do you not think women would change naturally if they weren't subjected to a patriarchy?

[CaptChaos]

Are you comparing feminists to Nazis, Mont? And Patriarchy to the Jewish diaspora?

Can I call Godwin's here?

[scallopsrgreat]

Please do Capt. Please do!

[Montmorency1]

To change the patriarchy, women must change along with men - or else nothing changes. You see, women do not exist in some kind of stasis or vacuum; they are perfectly integrated into human society.

As for "be changed", because there is really no reason to believe that gendered expectations throughout the world will change significantly over the next however-many years without significant external pressure being placed on the individuals who hold them, which as you know is some billions all-told.

[Montmorency1]

"Are you comparing feminists to Nazis, Mont?"

Nope. Try again.

[CaptChaos]

Ok, that was utter Godwin's.....


Try again, without the National Socialist swing Mont....

[scallopsrgreat]

Yep thanks for telling us about female oppression and what feminism needs to do. Didn't really answer my question though (which of course you don't have to do).

[Montmorency1]

"Yep thanks for telling us about female oppression and what feminism needs to do."

Um, yeah, I suppose I should know better than to do such a thing on a feminism discussion board, of all places.

"Didn't really answer my question though"

??

As far as I can tell I directly addressed both of your questions.

[scallopsrgreat]

No you just reiterated that women need to change. I'm not seeing why women need to change. They aren't the ones doing the oppressing.(although we do get some women helping men with that).

[scallopsrgreat]

That's interesting Satans

[Montmorency1]

To change the patriarchy, women must change along with men - or else nothing changes. You see, women do not exist in some kind of stasis or vacuum; they are perfectly integrated into human society.

"we do get some women helping men with that"

All women are complicit. That is why if they do not change then nothing changes.

The other flaw in your thinking is that male "oppression" is in the West substantially cultural rather than institutional, and is thus much less affected by fiat decree.

And I assure you Satan, if I had a superiority complex I would not bother to seek out perspectives other than my own.

[BillnTedsMostFeministAdventure]

Oh yay, Mont is back.