'Men are domestically abused more often than women'

(68 Posts)
Fifyfomum Thu 27-Mar-14 11:02:12

Someone has just said this to a room full of people I am training with.

I am so angry because I KNOW that is is not true. I sort of said 'I don't think that is true' and he completely disregarded it.

What I wanted to say is 'I know that is not true, I am doing a degree in social justice and I research this sort of stuff all the time'

I am just so annoyed people will come out with such nonsense before actually exploring the facts. Drives me bloody mad!

Rant over (maybe)

TheGirlFromIpanema Thu 27-Mar-14 11:05:57

Stuff like this happens to me. I am learning to try and remember some decent, rational points to make in future.

Its bloody horrible the way someone will close down any discussion by telling you YOU.ARE.WRONG.

Its a fucking laughable statement he made, really. You have my sympathy smile

Fifyfomum Thu 27-Mar-14 11:11:03

I've just accosted him in the kitchen and told him he is wrong, he then quantified it by saying something ridiculous and that it was 'the most up to date information social workers are given to read' and I informed him amazingly calmly that my degree covers the same information so that simply cannot be true. I agreed that he had read it but that it was not correct. I then referenced a few reports and aKed him for the name of his, he couldn't give one, just said it was 'too long ago'

Arrrrrgh I am so angry with him!

ListenToTheLady Thu 27-Mar-14 11:11:48

From this paper:

"In Scotland women are two and a half times more likely than men to be killed by their partners. In England and Wales women are over four and a half times more likely to be killed by a partner (Soothill et al., 1999)."

I know this is about murder and not DV in general but it gives you an idea.

I have also seen it pointed out that when men are abused or killed by a partner, in about 20% of case the partner is also a man.

LEMmingaround Thu 27-Mar-14 11:18:06

So, are they? You say that isn't the case and i am inclined to agree wiht you. I do wonder though just how many men are abused in relationships.

There is the issue of physcial abuse - I wonder how much of this goes unreported? Is it the same ratio that one would see with women? ARe men less likely to report because they are embarrased or there is less physical damage? (not always of course).

Men don't have the monopoy on being controlling bastards i know plenty of women who have been vile to their partners. Emotional abuse is equally damaging - Do know know what the statistics are regarding this? Are men more likely to/able to walk away from an emitionally abusive partner? Would they be less likely to walk for fear of losing contac with their children? Are women more likely to seek professional help for this or even more inclined to see it as abuse than a man who may well just think, she is a bitch, i'm leaving?

As i said, i agree with you OP, my initial reaction is don't be so ridiculous of coures women are abused mor, but i do wonder how accurate the statistics are regarding this - So not disagreeing with you just wondering what your views are on some of the questions i have raised.

My mum abused my father emotionally, financially and physically throughout their marriage.

LEMmingaround Thu 27-Mar-14 11:20:24

Listen to the lady - that only covers physical abuse, hence my question.

OP - was the man you were talking with referring to physical abuse?

Fifyfomum Thu 27-Mar-14 11:21:15

Opinion is all good and well but facts and figures from countless reports show that women are more likely to be emotionally, physically or financially abused by a man.

CaptChaos Thu 27-Mar-14 11:25:10

So sorry that you are training with an MRA loser.

Every single reputable piece of research shows that

a) Women are more likely than men to have been abused, emotionally, physically, sexually or financially by their partners.

b) between 2 and 3 women a week are killed in the UK by their male partner or ex partner.

c) far from being less likely to report to the police, men are far MORE likely to report far earlier than women. It takes and average of 3 serious incidents of domestic violence for a woman to report, it only take once for men to report. (this is obviously an average, not true for every single case, some women suffer the most appalling abuse for years before they report, as do a very few men)

I would be very interested to read the research he is referring to. Surely, if it is the most up to date research available to social workers, it can't have been so long ago. I would therefore happily have called him out on it, in front of everyone in the room.

Whatsnextmum Thu 27-Mar-14 11:25:25

Curious as to why, as you are knowledgeable, why you didn't call him out in the meeting? Why in the kitchen?

I'm glad you did, just curious.

CaptChaos Thu 27-Mar-14 11:26:57

I am, by the way, not trying to minimise the suffering of men in abusive relationships.

I do believe that, in the majority of cases, it is men perpetrating the violence of every kind within relationships.

This is very annoying. Absolutely yes, sometimes men are abused and it is a very difficult issue for them to deal with. I knew two men at university who were both physically abused by girlfriends and it was incredibly hard for them to admit it. HOWEVER in our society overwhelming violence and domestic abuse is practiced by men on women. You do nobody any favours by attempting to deny that. I would keep an eye on this bloke tbh. Those who are anti-feminist always come out with this crap.

BillyBanter Thu 27-Mar-14 11:28:07

I do think it's more common, far more common than people think.

Many of these MILs and SILs and Mums and Sisters that people complain about on here are wives too. It's not a massive leap to think they might be abusive to their husbands too.

TheGirlFromIpanema Thu 27-Mar-14 11:29:24

I have also never seen women's organisations/literature/real life feminists deny the existence of F on M abuse and of course the two are not mutually exclusive.

But If it is in anyway true I would imagine that the severity of the cases in female on male cases to be different and also the frequency and pace at which the abuse escalates.

This is personal anec-data but I simply cannot fathom how it can be anything other than a way to close down debate on M on F abuse.

The fact this bloke expected you to believe his fact was an up to date piece of relevant information, yet then dismissed you with 'I don't remember' is really very telling imo.

ListenToTheLady Thu 27-Mar-14 11:38:07

Yes my stat was just one small example of one type of abuse, and I can see that emotional abuse (where the mismatch between physical strengths less relevant maybe) by women may be more common. Not more common than from men to women, but more common than physical violence by women.

'This is personal anec-data but I simply cannot fathom how it can be anything other than a way to close down debate on M on F abuse.

The fact this bloke expected you to believe his fact was an up to date piece of relevant information, yet then dismissed you with 'I don't remember' is really very telling imo'

YES absolutely.

Kewcumber Thu 27-Mar-14 12:00:30

I deal with any statements of "fact" like this (ie with no evidence) but saying in front of anyone who will listen

"You do realise that you just stating that doesn't actually make it true?"

LEMmingaround Thu 27-Mar-14 12:05:42

So, physical strength aside - what makes men more likely to be abusive emotionally, financially etc? Or is it that women's place/value in society makes them more vulnerable? Is a mother more vulnerable maybe because she may be financially dependant upon the man? These are genuine questions rather than questioning the facts.

LEMmingaround Thu 27-Mar-14 12:06:05

Or are men simply more likely to be cunts?

ListenToTheLady Thu 27-Mar-14 12:13:09

No I think one huge factor is that society inculcates the idea that women matter less than men, at every level, all the time – including things like women changing their names and men not, girls toys/activities being about looking decorative while boys' ones are about being active and constructive, and women's appearance and behaviour being blamed for rape, and the myth that men can't help themselves.

All this sinks in and tells both men and women that a man abusing a woman is somehow acceptable, that she's to blame if she hasn't cleaned up etc. or "made him cross", that she and the kids can cope on a pittance because his need for treats/hobbies is more important, that he should get a lie-in all weekend because he "works hard", that he requires sex even if she doesn't want it, and so on. I think abuse is made up of deliberate individual actions, but it also arises out of and is given a context by that general background attitude.

Or is it that women's place/value in society makes them more vulnerable? Is a mother more vulnerable maybe because she may be financially dependant upon the man?

I think this has a large part to play. Perhaps because some men feel that they have done the thing that society sees as valuable (they've gone out to work) and therefore they have the right to have things at home organised their way, because they 'support' everyone.

There are also the cultural forces that keep women in unequal relationships. That whole 'think of the children' and 'it's not so bad, being a single mum would be worse' sentiment.

x-post Lady. I agree with what you've posted too.

slug Thu 27-Mar-14 13:01:17

My favourite line for these type of people is "You are entitled to your own opinion. What you are not entitled to is your own facts"

scallopsrgreat Thu 27-Mar-14 13:03:22

Karen Ingala Smith, CEO of NIA does a lot of work on male violence. This whole thing about women being as bad as men or even worse (despite the fact that there isn't a single survey that suggests F on M violence is worse than M on F violence and certainly not worse than M on M violence) has come from the British Crime Survey figures. She explains these figures really well here. I have linked this before because basically it has pretty much all the information in one hit so is really useful!

SGM used to have some great figures from the FBI as well about rape (or was it false accusations - I'll go ask!).

Lottapianos Thu 27-Mar-14 13:06:46

Well done you OP for making sure that you did have your say. He sounds like an utter plonker and I hope he feels suitably mortified that he wasn't able to give you a proper reference. Doubt it though hmm

I liked this:

The differences between men and women’s use of violence and experiences of victimisation do not need to be denied or minimised for all victims to be deserving of safety and support. It is quite possible to believe that no woman, child, or man deserves to be a victim of sexual or domestic violence (or indeed of any other type of violence) whist maintaining a feminist agenda to end women’s oppression.

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