I've just remembered how much people hate women.

(43 Posts)
hazchem Fri 03-Jan-14 09:42:39

A women was asked to move to the toilets to feed her baby in a well known Sydney restaurant today. The law in Australia protects women from this sort of treatment. The management has responded well although has not yet apologized publicly.
What gets me is the bullshit on facebook. It's two fold really all the cover up, seeing women's boob in public is wrong shit but i hate the would you want to eat your lunch in a toilet because what that does is diminish the fact that the women is being discriminated for doing something that is part of her biological function. Also it seams like women are the ones, in this case, being all don't feed in public it's gross.
It's got me in a right funk. stupid facebook. I wish the good bits of it could be somewhere without the rubbish.
I've put this hear cause I'm more pissed off about the sexist shit then breastfeeding I hope that's ok.

SirChenjin Fri 03-Jan-14 09:45:48

Shouldn't the title of your post be "I've just remembered how ignorant some people can be about breastfeeding" or "I've just remembered that FB is a load of crap"

'People' don't hate women.

Onesleeptillwembley Fri 03-Jan-14 09:50:41

'People hate women' it's ridiculous generalisations like that that cheapen reasoned, justified statements.

hazchem Fri 03-Jan-14 09:52:55

Either of those are also true but what I was trying to get across is that I think not upholding women's rights comes from a place of hatred.
Obviously not all people hate women but I think that the type of thing I've seen on the site suggest a hatred of women and it came from both men and women.

hazchem Fri 03-Jan-14 09:55:01

See I used people as I wanted to include men and women in it. Probably should have used some people.

SirChenjin Fri 03-Jan-14 09:58:17

No - I think it stems from a fear or hatred of breastfeeding in public which can be associated with the belief that breasts=sex and so either confuses some people or makes them uncomfortable. I don't believe that people generally hate one sex or the other.

hazchem Fri 03-Jan-14 10:04:19

But I sort of think that breast =sex stuff is tired up with a whole load of weird and unhealthy ideas about what women are in relation to both sex and mothering.
I'm probably about to make an arse of myself here. But I guess I'd say that discrimination against people who are gay is often from a place of fear and hatred and I think that the same things occur to in regards to a persons sex.

I see where you're coming from hazchem. It's a few degrees of removal from 'woman asked to breastfeed in toilet and FB loons post unpleasant opinions about her' to 'cultural misogyny' but it gets there fairly quick when one asks questions.

Why is breastfeeding in public something that many people find shocking? Is it because they don't like the idea that they might glimpse a bit of breast? In that case, why aren't they protesting also against P3 and lots of advertisements for products related (and unrelated) to breasts?

Could it be because women using their breasts to look sexy in public is OK, but women using their breasts in a way that isn't meant to look sexy in public is disgusting, offensive?

What does that conclusion say about how our culture (not particular individuals within our culture, but our culture in general) views women and their role? Women's bodies used as public property to titilate or sell stuff? A-OK. Women using their bodies in public to feed babies? Ugh! Get her out of sight!

And then, when this treatment is challenged, let's pour abuse on the woman. How dare she!

scallopsrgreat Fri 03-Jan-14 10:22:41

I think it is also about women taking up public space. Public spaces are traditionally dominated by men. Women breastfeeding in public is something that reminds men that public space is for women too and babies and children shock.

hazchem Fri 03-Jan-14 10:44:35

Buffy and scallop thanks for articulating what I was feeling. Yes that's it. I do know it's a jump but not a big one.
I don't think all people hate women but I think a fair few do. Also I think there is a probably a level of internalized sexism in quite a few women.

CailinDana Fri 03-Jan-14 18:49:05

I think hatred is perhaps the wrong word. Without a doubt some men do hate women, in a deep vitriolic way. When it comes to women I think it's more down to powerful social conditioning that is so effective that often men don't need to play any part, women police each other on behalf of the patriarchy - handy, eh? It's a tough topic in feminism (an aspect of which I've been discussing on another thread about challenging older women) because if you forgive women for having these attitudes because they've been socialised to think that way, do you then also need to forgive men their sexist views for the same reason? On the one hand you can argue no because men are the powerful group and thus their views are more damaging and also they have more scope to change things. However both women and men can have a lack of insight into how their views are formed and influrnced by society. They simply think "that's the way things are" and don't question it. So is that sort of ignorance equally fogiveable/unforgiveable in men and women?

I think it's equally forgivable and unforgivable in both men and women. Wow, what a helpful response!

I mean that nobody is responsible for the social conditioning they receive = forgivable. But some people don't half fight to hold onto their ignorance that just because "that's the way things are" this means that's the way things should be = unforgivable.

It makes me feel more sad and hopeless when women don't question things though. At least men have an incentive for maintaining the status quo with regards to their position in society. But it's not fair to hold women to a higher standard.

CailinDana Fri 03-Jan-14 19:15:25

It's apt that you mention the fight to hold onto ignorance buffy because that's essentially the problem I've been discussing in older women. In that case though I think it is easier and less painful for a woman who has accepted.patriarchal shit all.her life to reject the feminist view than to admit she didn't have to accept shit and that in fact her father/brother/husband is a sexist who actually should have done housework and helped look after children instead of sitting on his arse being waited on by women. So how should we view such willful ignorance when it's motivated by self-protection?

Yes. Many women don't want to be seen (or see themselves) as a victim and they feel that feminism paints them as such.

CailinDana Fri 03-Jan-14 20:27:56

It brings home just how ingrained and pervasive misogyny is when women will defend misogynistic views because to question them would mean questioning such a large part of their everyday lives.

populartalks Fri 03-Jan-14 22:27:34

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Uh huh, uh huh, public decency eh <nods along>

CailinDana Fri 03-Jan-14 22:31:55

How many women have you seen "whipping them out" popular?

populartalks Fri 03-Jan-14 22:32:27

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populartalks Fri 03-Jan-14 22:33:19

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Nah it's 2014 now, let's all be noooooooooooodists

Do you hear that faint whooshing sound behind you, ahem 'popular'? That be The Point.

bringonyourwreckingball Fri 03-Jan-14 22:37:32

Popular if you try to feed your baby with your dick you're doing it wrong.

NiceTabard Fri 03-Jan-14 22:46:16

Hmmm

I have certainly never seen any tits while eating at my local caff... where the builders go... erm....

<looks around and notices>

Oh fuck me they're everywhere!!!

populartalks I don't think you should leave the house again. It's just not safe.

Nice you're on fine form this evening grin

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