why are childlesd women treated so badly?

(72 Posts)
midnight100 Sun 22-Dec-13 19:53:09

I am childless and before you think I'm a child hater or something, I love kids, have worked with kids as and really want to have children as soon as I meet the right person.
As a childless women I fell like I don't matter and am not a real women, everything is about mothers, they get so much regonition. They should get regonition, but i feel like other people don't get enough regonition like carers because of all the regonition, like that Sma advert , you're doing great and that asda advent we had last year with the mum doing Lindsay Christmas. Wow thanks asda its such a relief to no as a childless single women there's nothing I need to do for Christmas.

LynetteScavo Sun 22-Dec-13 19:55:06

Um....these are adverts trying to sell to the people who buy the most stuff from them.....not RL people.

midnight100 Sun 22-Dec-13 19:55:09

People say you won't understand till you have kids, I have never claimed to understand. Well you won't understand till you have a caree

midnight100 Sun 22-Dec-13 19:57:15

Forget to add I am a former carer and I just hate feeling like I don't matter because I'm childless

LynetteScavo Sun 22-Dec-13 19:58:35

If dads did the majority of the food shopping, or made the decision on how to feed their baby, the adverts would be very different.

I'm not sure perpetuating the idea it's normal for woman to do all the preparation for Christmas helps feminism, though...seeing as we're on the feminism board.

WoTmania Sun 22-Dec-13 20:07:30

Many mothers would also say that they don't feel they get any recognition for what they do/are. Especially if they are SAHMs as they often get told they aren't putting anything into society being economically inactive.

FWIW as a feminist I hated that ASDA advert - it was reducing that particular woman to a servant essentially. The Daily Fail's ideal woman: there to look after others with no needs of her own. I don't think it was giving mothers recognition but diminishing them.

Basically you can't win: Mother: go back to work an you're heartless harridan who farms out her children and will probably be ureliable (because obviously you'll be the one do emergency childcare), SAH and you're setting a bad example by not working etc. Non-mother: you're selfish for not having children hmm and probably unnatural too.

midnight100 Sun 22-Dec-13 20:12:21

No I fell the asda advert was sexist to women and men and offensive to childless women. I also hate the saying you have no idea(about kids), right surely someone who had no idea would be someone who had no experience with kids, and I don't have full ideas because I have not had kids, but surely I have some ideas, if only a tiny bit, to say you have no idea is very offensive.

midnight100 Sun 22-Dec-13 20:14:55

Well mothers do get a lot of regonition, childless women still run a home like mothers but it's like they don't.

midnight100 Sun 22-Dec-13 20:18:20

And yes I agree you can't win, what about the expression, it the hardest job in the world, mum's do get regonition. I use to be a carer so was at home all the time with 24/7 responsibly, similar but not the same i know as a a sahm

midnight100 Sun 22-Dec-13 20:21:35

And yes as a carer I've had people say, what do you do all day get, like some sahm

WoTmania Sun 22-Dec-13 20:21:48

So how did you feel it was particularly offensive to childless women? I think it was offensive to everyone really whether woman/man, with or without children.
I am very offended by the idea that mothers, or women should be happy doing all the drudge work, getting no help or thanks, shoved onto a footstool because everyone else has taken all the good chairs 'cos she was in the kitchen slaving over a hot stove and then once she's finished washing up and tidying up just gets asked 'what's for tea'. That's not recognition, that's thankless drudgery and being taken for granted.

How do you feel the phrase 'you wouldn't know unless you've had kids' links in with feminism? Also how do you feel mothers get more recognition? In what areas? (other than awful adverts)

midnight100 Sun 22-Dec-13 20:22:34

I mean grr not get sorry

midnight100 Sun 22-Dec-13 20:24:25

I just think women should all support each other not exclude childless women

MiniTheMinx Sun 22-Dec-13 20:27:39

Motherhood is sold to women all their lives, but recognised as the grinding hard work that it is, seldom. No one, not even older women are completely honest about the experience. I will work over christmas just as I have every christmas since having DC, I will be guilty of burning the potatoes, forgetting the crackers or failing to buy everything on everyone's wish list and wrapping it beautifully. I will have cheated on the decorations having not made any this year and I will have to disappoint elderly relatives by leaving them to microwave meals and Tv for company because I can't and don't want to live up to the myth or the cult of motherhood.

There is a deep contradiction in how motherhood is marketed and the way in which you are treated having succumbed to the hard sell. I agree that single childless women are viewed with suspicion, either assumed to be desperate or weird but that is part of the culture that perpetuates the myth of motherhood. OP we are women, born female and able and obliged to have children but whether it is natural or desirable to want to is another matter, and whilst not entirely free will you have some choice in the matter. But if you are looking for recognition of your choices or your contribution, you'll find it's given only in relation to your economic value.

ViviDeHohohoVoir Sun 22-Dec-13 20:30:51

I think the advert was just filled with stereotypes and as a result was insulting to lots of groups of people (both men and women IMO) so not a very good example.

I think that childless women may be treated a certain way by society firstly, because they are women. Quite simply, women are treated negatively by some sectors of society (including the media, which you include in your OP) because of the choices they make, regardless of what those choices are.
Additionally, certain sectors of society don't like to think women might make a conscious choice not to have children as it doesn't compute with them.
To be honest, some parts of society don't like women to have a choice about many things, including decisions made about their own bodies, so it isn't surprising really.

WoTmania Sun 22-Dec-13 20:31:10

just seen your last few posts - I suppose it depends on what you regard to be recognition and what you want it for.
I can tell you on a personal note that I get no recognition for 'running a home' - it's assumed I will, because I'm a woman and mother. DH is a father, no one assumes that he will do housework and childcare. He gets recognition though, especially if he's out with all our children on his own.

WoTmania Sun 22-Dec-13 20:33:22

How do you feel excluded on this board?

KaseyM Sun 22-Dec-13 20:38:30

OP, I think media is designed to make all women feel bad fullstop. Take the "career women make bad mothers" advertising campaign. Hideous, just hideous. Or the reports saying it's bad to send your kids to nursery. Or single motherhood is such a bad thing. And when mothers are idolised it's on condition they do all the housework, and behave in saintly manner, taking none of the credit.

As a single woman you're adored in the media as long as you're young and gorgeous, but naturally so, not too much make-up or surgery. Get a bit older and yes childless and forget it, you're past it and not even worth mentioning.

Basically, you're fucked either way, damned if you do and damned if you don't - so you might as well do whatever you want.

TheDoctrineOfSanta Sun 22-Dec-13 20:40:31

I was on a plane once. DH was reading the kids a bedtime story. The stewardess said, "oh, isn't he a good dad?"

I don't think she'd have said, "oh, isn't she a good mum?" to him if I'd been the one reading the story.

A number of FWR regulars don't have kids; I've never seen anyone on FWR excluding childless women, and I've rarely seen it on mumsnet as a whole either.

ViviDeHohohoVoir Sun 22-Dec-13 20:49:41

Yy to the 'good dad' comments.
If my DC's dad takes all three of them to the supermarket he constantly gets stopped by people (usually women) remarking on how wonderful he is to have 3 DC with him and what a great job he's doing even if he's just pushing them in a trolley and feeding them sweets
When I take them all out to the supermarket all the bloody time this never happens.
In fact, I sometimes get tutted at if the DC are being too loud/having too much fun/being grumpy/whatever.

MiniTheMinx Sun 22-Dec-13 20:51:58

Do single men who have no children come in for the same scrutiny as childless women? I'm fairly certain they don't.

WoTmania Sun 22-Dec-13 20:55:39

Vivi - DH commented on it today as he finds it really annoying. He took our three out to get a Christmas tree and had a lot of positive comments, which is nice, but he knows full well I don't get them. Why would I! I'm a mother, that's my job fwink

scaevola Sun 22-Dec-13 21:02:25

I think OP is looking at this the wrong way one.

She is craving external validation of choices she has freely made.

Why?

It is a good think that such choices are available, and that people really use them as OP has done. And of course it's a utter nonsense to think that her choices inevitably attract condemnation. So what is really going on that means that, right now, OP is having a crisis of confidence?

MiniTheMinx Sun 22-Dec-13 21:04:05

But if all choices were equal then no validation would be required.

LynetteScavo Sun 22-Dec-13 21:57:00

So having children is viewed as a more valid choice than not having children?

And If you don't have children, it's OK if you are pretty and slim and under 40?

Okay...just checking everyone I know conforms to advertising companies idea of what is and what isn't OK. hmm

As someone who has worked 72 hour weeks as a live in nanny I can tell you being a mother is totally different.

Just like if I worked as a carer for someone with Alzheimer's it would be totally different to living with and caring for my own parent with Alzheimer's.

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