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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Beyonce/ Jay Z reference to Tina turner's domestic abuse in music video

32 replies

sherazade · 20/12/2013 13:01

how is this acceptable?

Am disgusted and saddened to be honest.

OP posts:

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thisismyYuleTimenickname · 20/12/2013 14:40

Me too OP. I wonder why it was included- how could they possibly think it was a good idea?! Do they hate Tina Turner or what?
I've seen her been called a feminist many times since she sampled a great feminist speech on one song but then she also has this on the same album...

SinisterSal · 20/12/2013 15:29

Sad and incredibly stupid

BunnyLebowski · 20/12/2013 15:32

That is pretty bad.

But this is the woman who last week wore leather trousers and a cow print top to a vegan restaurant (her and Ike, I mean Jay Z, are being vegans for the month ).

LeBearPolar · 20/12/2013 15:39

Why is anyone surprised? Is Beyonce known for being outspoken in defence of women's rights?

Genuine question, not a sarky one - I know very little about her but what I do know revolves around her spending a lot of time singing and dancing in her underwear and being married to some rapper who doesn't seem to be a poster boy for feminism.

So I could understand the outrage if this were, say Germaine Greer or Andrea Dworkin, but Beyonce? Isn't her bottom line basically, how much attention can I get and how much money can I make?

SinisterSal · 20/12/2013 15:47

LeBear I think Beyonce does consider herself a feminist. She is empowered, you see, and lovin her sexuality. Can you tell I don't think much of that perspective - it just seems like a mealy mouthed way of saying I'm not a manpleaser just because I spend most of my time pleasing men. But other people disagree.
And JayZ had a major feminist consciousness raising moment last year when his daughter was born. He is no longer going to call women bitches and hos as they are all someones daughter. Wait I minute while I swoon and sink to my knees before his crotch

TheCrackFox · 20/12/2013 16:01

Beyonce and Jay Z are a fine example of a couple completely surrounded by yes people and a pair of over rich knob ends as a result. Mind you they both have form what with her singing about "put a ring on it" (shame she didn't put a sock in it) and him having lots of problems but no "bitches".

I'm impressed that the Mirror has a feminist article in it. And slightly stunned.

LeBearPolar · 20/12/2013 16:05

Sinister - that's what I don't get: all this stuff about 'self-identifying' (have I got that right?) as a feminist. Does it just mean: I can behave how I want and say what I want because if I say I'm a feminist then it's OK?

I have the same issue with Miley Cyrus by the way. All that crap about how feminist it is to take her clothes off at every God-given opportunity and stick her tongue out.

thisismyYuleTimenickname · 20/12/2013 16:46

I'm not surprised that Beyonce isn't a feminist (I don't think she is) however I'm still upset that she/Jay Z would think it was a good idea to include a direct and positive reference to Ike Turner abusing Tina.

mayorquimby · 20/12/2013 17:35

"And JayZ had a major feminist consciousness raising moment last year when his daughter was born. He is no longer going to call women bitches and hos as they are all someones daughter. Wait I minute while I swoon and sink to my knees before his crotch"

That was a fake quote he never said that

SinisterSal · 20/12/2013 18:24

LeBearPolar - I suppose you can self identify as anything you want, who'll stop you? But if you do so publicly, others will judge. That's life, not just feminism, I guess.

I mean I care so much about food poverty in the developing world. Not that I contribute to charity, or do any activist work or even buy fair trade. But I do care. I dooo. That's why there are still hungry children in the world, you bitches are judging me and finding me lacking.

SinisterSal · 20/12/2013 18:25

Really Mayor? I snigger - but it was at least a start from a baseline of below zero.

Birdo83 · 22/12/2013 10:29

"I've seen her been called a feminist many times since she sampled a great feminist speech on one song but then she also has this on the same album..."

She also repeatedly refers to women as "bitches" in the same song as the feminist speech. "I know when you were little girls, you wanted to step in to my world... bow down bitches, bow down bitches" ... She's an idiot.

HowlingTrap · 24/12/2013 11:30

Wow, that is bad :/

MerryFuckingChristmas · 24/12/2013 11:33

Beyonce and her followers would say she is a feminist because she is in charge of everything she does.

Except, erm, she isn't.

FreudiansSlipper · 24/12/2013 22:49

oh the feminist who sang girls run the world

yes because a true feminist knows that we do and always have

she is very talented but she is her husbands puppet, he has always been controversial and makes no apology for it though why this reference i do not know

lauralouise90 · 23/01/2014 15:30

Calling Beyonce, Jay Z's puppet is a bit too much.

Personally I think Beyonce does a lot for modern feminism, she's one of the first (if not the first) female artist to openly sing about female pleasure in her songs and 'Flawless' is all about feminism and the perception of women!

MorrisZapp · 23/01/2014 15:33

Don't want to click links. How do they reference dv in the video?

KerryKatonasKhakis · 24/01/2014 00:06

Morris Jay-z quotes a bit from one of Ike's attacks from the Tina Turner biopic, and she mouths it too.

She does consider herself a feminist. She has done some writing and interviews about her feminism and I think she does promote or 'run' something to do with female literacy or something.

Her feminism is very popular because she is also beautiful, well-groomed, young, married to Jay-Z, Christian, often seen in stockings and suspenders and always very keen to point out she is not anti-men. None of these things are at odds with my feminism btw, but this dv rap is.

JapaneseMargaret · 28/01/2014 09:17

The Mrs Carter Show, was the name of her last tour, right?

But I'm guessing the little wifey routine is meant to be ironic or something.

I don't quite get the adoration surrounding her. And I think the 'eat the cake, Anna Mae' line is, um, questionable, at best. [/overly charitable]

JapaneseMargaret · 28/01/2014 09:22

And Beyonce isn't that ground-breaking - The Divinyls were singing about female pleasure back in 1990, and I doubt they were the first...

WhentheRed · 29/01/2014 02:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

themessyapron · 29/01/2014 02:34

I'm a big Beyonce fan but those lyrics are inappropriate and stupid.

I like this article on Beyonce and feminism: m.essence.com/2013/12/17/beyonces-unconventional-and-flawed-feminism/

themessyapron · 29/01/2014 02:36

And I don't know why she called her last tour the Mrs Carter show... She does call herself Sasha Fierce too - just another character.

Jay Z took Beyonce's name. They are bother Carter-Knowles.

themessyapron · 29/01/2014 02:37

Knowles-Carter.

themessyapron · 29/01/2014 02:47

And could 'eat the cake' be a play on words, in that cake etc is slang for oral sex? Am not saying it's an ok thing to say, just thinking out loud.

More in the Guardian www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2014/jan/28/beyonce-drunk-in-love-problem-lyrics

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