Page 3 David Cameron's response

(71 Posts)
Mumraathenoisylion Tue 26-Nov-13 10:29:40

Apologies if this story has been posted before.

d-cam response to page 3 ban

I feel helpless with this one. It's not just the children, it's the violence on women, the way it makes women into animals to look at, the self confidence issues of teenagers, the expectation of men, the acceptance of young women and men that this is ok.

It's not ok. I want to do something about it, I actually feel like screaming reading this. What can be done?

Mumraathenoisylion Tue 26-Nov-13 10:32:17

Just as disturbing is that their 'quick poll' currently stands at 51% not in favour of banning page 3.

Biggedybiggedybongsoitis Tue 26-Nov-13 10:51:56

News International are a big backer of call-me-Dave's party. Murdoch makes or breaks governments in the UK. No politician with an ounce of self-preservation will stand up to Rupert. Realpolitik.

morethanpotatoprints Tue 26-Nov-13 11:02:02

Well, he has gone up in my estimation.
When we start trying to ban things just because we don't like something then we are in trouble imo.

Mumraathenoisylion Tue 26-Nov-13 11:05:14

Really? It's not because I don't like it....although I don't.....it's because the sexual objectification of women shouldn't be alongside news....in fact I don't think the sexual objectification of women should happen anywhere but in this case it is a daily occurrence which millions of people see and now find acceptable.

BuffytheElfSquisher Tue 26-Nov-13 11:15:23

Trouble is morethan you talk about "not liking" something as though that was an absolute and objective thing. Whereas I'd suggest to you that the line between something that a group of people just doesn't like and something that is regarded as justifiably unacceptable by most people is one that's drawn by a combination of history (if it was made illegal a while ago, we're used to it being so) and the power of the group that wants it to stay or go.

morethanpotatoprints Tue 26-Nov-13 11:33:47

Buffy

I don't care if its only a minority that likes it, freedom of choice is what we are talking about and I don't think anybody has a right to stop this.
I don't think it should be illegal, and nor do I think most people want it banned.

BuffytheElfSquisher Tue 26-Nov-13 11:46:07

morethan

I think it's a minority of misogynists who want to keep it and an apathetic majority who don't care.

I do not think that the rights of some men to choose to leer at young women trumps the rights of young women not to be the sex class.

I further think that if most people don't want it banned, then most people haven't thought carefully enough about it.

morethanpotatoprints Tue 26-Nov-13 11:51:03

Buffy

I think there is only one right here and that is the right to freedom.
You don't have to look if you don't want to, you don't have to buy.
You can make your ds/ dh promise not to buy or look.
Nobody has the right to stop anybody else's choices imo.

ScientificProgressGoesBoink Tue 26-Nov-13 11:55:01

So more than, does your stance mean that hardcore violent child porn is acceptable too? Because by your rules it would be....

ScientificProgressGoesBoink Tue 26-Nov-13 11:59:47

What we are doing here it trying to draw a moral line in the sand. For some the objectification of women in this way, in an industry proven exploit vulnerable young women, is immoral. The rules and laws of a country don't just exist in vacuum, they change according to the acceptability (or not) of a persons actions according to the generation which governs. This is why women got to vote, why gay couples can marry and should be why we look again at the porn industry. This country has (supposedly) changed in its respect and equal rights for women...one of those rights should be NOT to have to view this crap. And you can't escape it. Yesterday ds and I were in a cafe and there was the sun, open on page 3, which he saw.

BuffytheElfSquisher Tue 26-Nov-13 12:16:32

the right to freedom

Yeah, whose freedom?

Biggedybiggedybongsoitis Tue 26-Nov-13 13:36:07

I know this won't be a popular view on here, but a lot of the apathy is because people generally see adult women choosing to go into this as a career. Comparisons with child porn don't really help. And I am not for or against page 3, just pointing out something that I don't think has been mentioned.

Personally, the Sun is guilty of far greater wrongs than page 3. I'd like to see it shut down for some of the other stuff it is guilty of.

BuffytheElfSquisher Tue 26-Nov-13 13:55:37

It's not the adult women posing in media like the sun whose choices concern me. It's my dd and ds growing up in a world that has no issue with the consequences of their choices. A world that prioritises the rights of adult men to be free to make a choice to consume women's bodies over the rights of women and girls not to be part of that consumption.

But these views, with many articulate and well-informed discussions of them, are available on here in other threads. Why are we rehashing them here? If you were in my class, I'd ask you to do the reading and then engage at an appropriate level.

Biggedybiggedybongsoitis Tue 26-Nov-13 15:40:12

I dunno then. Mumraa, why did you bring this up? It's been done to death, apparently.

BuffytheElfSquisher Tue 26-Nov-13 16:10:49

There are relatively recent threads on the topic here, here and here.

I don't usually subscribe to the 'this has been done before' school of put downs, but come on, how often do we need to go over the same ground when a bit of background reading will provide clear and detailed responses to these very basic points? It strikes me as a little disrespectful.

BuffytheElfSquisher Tue 26-Nov-13 16:12:57

And actually, it's not the OP who is bringing up basic, lazy dismissals of the reasons why it might benefit everyone to do away with P3. OP posted something interesting and new. It's the choosy choice people I'm suggesting would benefit from reading previous discussions.

emcwill74 Tue 26-Nov-13 17:31:52

more than - you say you don't think most people want it banned, but why do we have to talk about 'banning' or it being 'illegal'? If Dinsmore decided to get with the 21st century and accept that women are a bit more than sexual commodities defined by their appearance and simply stopped printing the thing, as would be his right as editor with no need for any great democratic say-so, just like when the Sun started it in the first place, then I don't think most people would be bothered either. MOST PEOPLE don't buy the Sun. This tends to be forgotten when p3 supporters say 'who are 126,000 petition-signers to tell 2.3m Sun buyers blah blah blah', but that leaves over 50m people who don't buy it, and therefore, presumably, wouldn't give a toss if it bit the dust. I find more and more when I talk to people about page 3 they just look mildly surprised that it still exists.

Biggedybiggedybongsoitis Tue 26-Nov-13 18:05:50

There is another thread on here at the moment about general public apathy to current issues. As dmc says, it's the biggest obstacle to those who would ban it. Nobody cares, really.

BuffytheElfSquisher Tue 26-Nov-13 18:11:06

But again, for those at the back, don't believe anyone's talking about banning it. Are they? Just that they'd like it to die a death as an outdated and embarrassing practice.

And yeah, I think many posters on this board are only too aware of how much most people care about the equality of women sad

I support the "no more page 3" campaign and have signed the petitions, but I'm still not sure if the ban on pornography should also include page 3 as I don't think breasts are "pornographic" iyswim?

Are they appropriate in a newspaper? No
Is it sexist? yes
Does it lead to treating women as sex objects? Yes.

But still not sure one law should include the other. I don't want to ban public displays of breasts, really I'd prefer to get to the point where women can wander around topless like men can without anyone blinking an eye and breastfeeding wouldn't encounter anything more than an offer of a glass of a water and a place to sit down.

But David Cameron is a bit of dim bulb really if he thinks parents can stop their children from buying newspapers, or going in to newsagents or going to schools where their teachers can be reading the fucking thing. confused

I mean he does have children right? --

Mumraathenoisylion Tue 26-Nov-13 18:25:08

I'm sorry if this has been done and done again, I'm also sorry if my op was slightly less eloquent and academic compared to many posts.

I do have a lot to learn. I feel very passionate about this particular subject though and my main reason of posting was one of despair that I and my two daughters have to live in a world where we are merely viewed as animals by some. I would also love advice on how to make that change (trying not to channel Michael Jackson here). I would like to do something pro-active.

Mumraathenoisylion Tue 26-Nov-13 18:27:01

I agree please my fil brings it to our house on every visit. My dm offers it to my husband to read.

Is it a generational thing?

emcwill74 Tue 26-Nov-13 18:32:13

If my fil brought the Sun into our house I would take it outside and put it in the recycling bin until he got the message!

BuffytheElfSquisher Tue 26-Nov-13 18:51:53

Please don't apologise mumraa, your OP was new and interesting.

It was the typical "freedom of choice" responses that irritated me with their depressing sameness. Those posters need to read previous threads, not you.

I share your despair about a society that at best apathetically ignores Page 3 and yet congratulates itself about how equal things are nowadays.

I'm sorry if I made you feel unwelcome smile

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