International Day of the Man

(72 Posts)
BrushedStoat Tue 19-Nov-13 10:59:52

This gave me a chuckle.

CaptChaos Thu 28-Nov-13 22:17:33

Sorry I wasn't clear.

To me, misogyny is (as others have said) more than simple woman hating. It encompasses a societal belief system, where women are lesser, and those lesser beings must be kept in their place. It's more than mere sexism, it goes beyond that because it is ingrained, almost instinctive and involves the class with power (men) wanting to continue to have that power over the female class. By the same token, misandry can't exist. The male class has all the power over the female class, and therefore any belief that the female class is in any way subjugating the male class can only be impossible.

This isn't to say that individuals can't be sexist toward men, they can, and have been, but this doesn't equate to misandry because of the power dynamic.

scallopsrgreat Thu 28-Nov-13 21:43:55

And just adding to the above, sexism shown by women is generally in reaction to the sexism/misogyny shown to them. All the women in the world could stop being sexist towards men but misogyny would still be there. Remove misogyny and there would be no need for any reciprocal sexism by women. It wouldn't make any sense.

BuffytheElfSquisher Thu 28-Nov-13 21:39:02

My view is that misogyny is sexism backed up by societal structures. Sure, women can hate men and behave towards them in a way that is sexist, but in my view this isn't backed up by societal structure, because generally men are the ones with the power. Society is organised such that women are pushed out of the workplace, subjected to sexual violence and rape myths, held to higher standards of behaviour at all times. So when women do things to men that would be classed as sexist (and there is no doubt that some do just that), they are bucking an overall trend.

Similarly, as Doctrine explains, a homosexual person can believe in, even act upon a negative stereotype of straight people, but they are going against the prevailing social structure, which discriminates against gay not straight people.

TheDoctrineOfWho Thu 28-Nov-13 20:50:23

I think it's because "misogyny", as commonly used, has the power differential implicit within it. For example, heterophobia is a word that would be easy to understand from the simple roots of the word, but it's not one that would be equivalent in any way to what homophobia implies, which goes beyond "fear of homosexuality" to mean mistreatment of those who are homosexual.

Biggedybiggedybongsoitis Thu 28-Nov-13 19:16:41

Re misandry and misogyny - you seem to be saying that a class can only hate another class if it is dominant. So A can hate B because A rules. But B cannot hate A because B is dominated. Have I got that right? If so, why?

CaptChaos Thu 28-Nov-13 18:56:22

hardly surprising that Mumsnet is getting bad reputations from other forums for its open vitriol against quite literally everything! Eg; woman falls to death over cliff, somewhere somehow its a man's fault.

I've not come across this, can you link examples of threads where people have said that a woman falling off a cliff is a man's fault, unless of course, there is a man there to push her?

Domestic Violence, the mainstay of feminism and radical feminism fails to speculate, accumulate and publish a sound statistic on its true occurrence.

The British Crime Survey found that there were an estimated 12.9 million incidents of
domestic violence acts (that constituted non-sexual threats or force) against women
and 2.5 million against men in England and Wales in the year preceding interview. 45% women and 26% men had experienced at least one incident of inter-personal
violence in their lifetimes. (Walby and Allen, 2004) – however when there were more
than 4 incidents (i.e. ongoing domestic or sexual abuse) 89% of victims were women. The BCS is felt to be really very accurate by everyone except MRAs because it doesn't back up their world view.

As some posters mention these days women in their 20's earn 3% (?) more than men.

But this gap widens in men's favour after 30

The pay gap is something, there are however genetic pre-requisites to overall achievements and drive career wise.

You're Godfrey Bloom and I claim my £5. Or you believe in evo-psych, and I still claim £5.

The life gap is remarkable as it is something men (in part) have themselves to blame in that they don't have regular health checks.

I agree.

As someone who in the general sense of ideas (more women in politics and in the boardroom) supports feminism and its ideals there are radical people gaining access to dangerous situations (Harriet Harman) who subvert the feminist movement as an open attack on males as a whole.

Only for men who see attacks in everything any woman ever says.

It's not fair to tar every man as a possible rapist, every boy as a possible member of the future patriarchy. In exactly the same way its wrong to tar every woman as a housewife and every girl as a future battered wife.

It may not be fair, but, from a theoretical perspective, it is reasonable. Men have penises, rape requires a penis, therefore men go about 'tooled up' if you will to commit the crime of rape, this doesn't mean that feminists think that ALL men will rape, or even that all men WILL rape. Until society changes, every boy born WILL be part of patriarchy, that's kind of the point of it. Being a housewife isn't a crime, nor is being a victim of domestic abuse, so that is a false equivalency.

If Feminists and MRAs could open a topic together and look at issues they will both see there is something more than just men ruining the system. A collective group may cause a Fatherhood problem (these groups being: deadbeat dads or bitter mums blocking contact).

The main problem with contact after separation is that, while courts have 50/50 access as a default, the RP is most likely to be the mother, given that statistically she is the one most likely to have providing the lion's share of childcare until the point of separation, the way to stop this is to break down barriers to men being able to spend equal time with their children, by spending more time with their children instead of seeing it as 'women's work'. MRAs get very angry about this, because, for some reason, they see children as their possessions, and, to them, women are trying to steal their possessions. (and ice cream)

I recall a thread on here many moons ago regarding misandry and it not existing. What many feminists on here failed to account is that without misandry there is no mysogyny.

That makes no sense

Earth and everything has an opposite, gender is no different.

Gender isn't the same as misogyny

I saw (radical) feminists arguing it doesn't exist and liking it to early racism. When seeking clarification on acknowledgement of this it was refused and stated its racism that's worse. The reponse ended when the said male poster said the worst thing that could happen was that any form of discrimination was not acknowledged. The posters fighting him instantly went on the offensive against him, despite his point disproving the entire thread title and all posts agreeing misandry didn't exist.

Misandry doesn't exist though, for it to actually exist outside of the weird ramblings of MRA websites, would mean that we had entered a parallel universe and women were running the show, badly. Misogyny does exist, because men run the show, and they don't want those pesky women stealing any of their precious privilege.

The world needs feminism and the world needs masculinity.

The 2 are neither opposites, nor mutually exclusive.

WilsonFrickett Thu 28-Nov-13 17:57:46

The world may indeed need the qualities which you have called 'masculinity' Riakin. My question would be, why do they need to come from men? In the same way as you have alluded to feminine perception - gendering qualities is nonsensical. Some people are perceptive. Some perceptive people are male, some are female.

Stickem - totally groundhog day of the MRAs! I haven't been on the board for ages either smile

FloraFox Thu 28-Nov-13 17:36:01

What a lot of tosh.

Riakin Thu 28-Nov-13 15:26:09

Masculine as in your gender stereotypical male perception (akin to feminine perception haha)

Biggedybiggedybongsoitis Thu 28-Nov-13 14:27:57

Riakin, I am a man and I'd like to know what exactly you are referring to by masculinity. What kind of traits or behaviours do you think it encompasses?

Riakin Thu 28-Nov-13 14:11:37

I just see it as something to see.

Fathers Day, often something vilified by many on mumsnet, hardly surprising that mumsnet is getting bad reputations from other forums for its open vitriol against quite literally everything! Eg; woman falls to death over cliff, somewhere somehow its a man's fault.

Domestic Violence, the mainstay of feminism and radical feminism fails to speculate, accumulate and publish a sound statistic on its true occurrence.

As some posters mention these days women in their 20's earn 3% (?) more than men. The pay gap is something, there are however genetic pre-requisites to overrall achievements and drive career wise. The life gap is remarkable as it is something men (in part) have themselves to blame in that they don't have regular health checks.

As someone who in the general sense of ideas (more women in politics and in the boardroom) supports feminism and its ideals there are radical people gaining access to dangerous situations (Harriet Harman) who subvert the feminist movement as an open attack on males as a whole.

It's not fair to tar every man as a possible rapist, every boy as a possible member of the future patriarchy. In exactly the same way its wrong to tar every woman as a housewife and every girl as a future battered wife.

If Feminists and MRAs could open a topic together and look at issues they will both. See there is something more than just men ruining the system. A collective group may cause a Fatherhood problem (these groups being: deadbeat dads or bitter mums blocking contact).

I recall a thread on here many moons ago regarding misandry and it not existing. What many feminists on here failed to account is that without misandry there is no mysogyny. Earth and everything has an opposite, gender is no different. I saw (radical) feminists arguing it doesn't exist and liking it to early racism. When seeking clarification on acknowledgement of this it was refused and stated its racism that's worse. The reponse ended when the said male poster said the worst thing that could happen was that any form of discrimination was not acknowledged. The posters fighting him instantly went on the offensive against him, despite his point disproving the entire thread title and all posts agreeing misandry didn't exist.

The world needs feminism and the world needs masculinity.

StickEmUpSideways Sat 23-Nov-13 13:58:20

Wow so I take a break and the MRA'S are still here?
Moaning?
Wanking over feminism which hurts men apparently?

<backs out of topic YET AGAIN>

SplitHeadGirl Fri 22-Nov-13 19:50:48

Patronising much, Pan? Wind yer neck in!!

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Fri 22-Nov-13 18:49:04

I've been following the twitter feed of the fabulous Gia M after Basil's link. The dude she was engaging with is a 17yr old self-confessed mra - who is currently posting some unbelievably ignorant and misinformed "opinions" about rape. Oh, and telling rape victims to 'just get therapy" hmm

He's also begged the creator of Basil's link to delete it - LOL. 17 yr olds really should be most careful what they put on twitter.

Puts me in mind of the "17 yr old male" who posted that thread "about feminism" on here a while back. Mmmm, I wonder...

BasilBabyEater Thu 21-Nov-13 18:10:17

And um yes the reason I was using the grin emoticon a lot is because your petulance was amusing me. Still is. Even after the paint's dried.grin

BasilBabyEater Thu 21-Nov-13 18:08:37

LOL you do realise that insults are not confined to actual bald statements such as "you are a nob", don't you?

Would you not consider being called a greivance nurser or an utter bore an insult then Pan? Does it happen to you so regularly that you consider it a dispassionate, objective description, rather than an insult?

DoctorTwo Thu 21-Nov-13 16:52:40

I feel such a failure. sad I had no idea it was International (the) Menz Day. I did love that Mirror piece and the post on gloss.com, they were hilarious. Like Owen Jones says, we have all the other days too, so a designated day is unnecessary imo.

Pan, you just got pwned... grin

scallopsrmissingAnyFucker Thu 21-Nov-13 16:17:55

I've always thought the use of the grin emoticon means someone is having fun.

I can see why.

Pan Thu 21-Nov-13 15:52:20

BBE - I haven't insulted you at all. Have a read back. The slurs, re honesty for example, have come from you. This victimhood bid is risible. And no, I referred directly to you re 'fantasising' and my posts, not 'people on this board'. That was specific to the 'malevolence' fantasy, today at least.

I'm also noting the usual over-use of the grin emotion.....they speak volumes about you.
Evenin' (again)

BasilBabyEater Thu 21-Nov-13 15:22:07

Oh and dream on about people on this board fantasising about you.

grin

BasilBabyEater Thu 21-Nov-13 15:21:27

Off you go then. Try fitting another insult in before you do, won't you.

Don't let the door hit your arse etc.

grin

Pan Thu 21-Nov-13 15:14:28

BBE, I accept that the grievance-nursing thing and the high-fiving instead of doing anything productive thing will be difficult for you as you don't wish to recognise either of them about yourself. And I wouldn't blame you. But really, there's no need to fantasise about me and my posts and turn them into a hollow, unfounded accusation. You've done that before and it's just as pitiful now.

I'll leave the thread as I know how things develop when someone questions the party line, coupled with a degree of personal animosity toward them. Other posters suddenly appear....

BasilBabyEater Thu 21-Nov-13 15:01:53

I laaaarve young Owen.

He is just so brilliant.

I love the way all those grey old men hate him and insult him for being young, when he's just better than them. grin

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 21-Nov-13 14:59:30

Basil, that twitter conversation was awesome - You could actually see him spluttering.

I love this:

Apparently today is #InternationalMensDay. It also goes by the names of Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday

Let's hear it for Owen Jones grin

BasilBabyEater Thu 21-Nov-13 14:48:53

If I'm such an utter bore, why are you still here talking to me and insulting me?

You realise you are making a spectacle of yourself, don't you?

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