A TED Talk That Might Turn Every Man Who Watches It Into A Feminist?

(165 Posts)
BuffytheAppleBobber Fri 18-Oct-13 13:27:00

I thought this was quite good.

cherryademerrymaid Fri 18-Oct-13 16:30:57

Thanks for posting this. I'm a fan of Ted talks and really enjoyed this one.

KoPo Fri 18-Oct-13 16:46:35

Fantastic! Now we need to hear him do it in a room full of men and getting those cheers.

Its great that the message is being spoken by men, but so often they are speaking it to women and not enough of the time to other men. This guy does give me some hope though in that he also goes out and takes the message to men. But I wonder how it is then received?

BlingLoving Fri 18-Oct-13 18:20:14

Dh put this in his Facebook once. Didn't get a single like or comment from a man if I recall. hmm

KoPo Fri 18-Oct-13 19:23:23

That's my point Bling. Most men just seem to think it can be ignored.

NeedlesCuties Fri 18-Oct-13 21:59:27

I LOVE Jackson Katz.

I work with a leading charity supporting women suffering domestic violence and I often refer to him and point the women in the direction of him online.

Very thought-provoking and I've been bending my DH's ear about that vid too smile

It's a good talk. This one's great too:

Where is men's roar?

BuffytheAppleBobber Sat 19-Oct-13 09:50:44

Oh yes, I loved the men's roar one.

DavesDadsDogDiedDiabolically Sat 19-Oct-13 13:28:23

Unfortunately, unless it's people falling off of skateboads or buildings etc. you're not going to get many men that'll sit down & watch it for 20 odd minutes.

I'll probably give it a go next week, but if it doesn't grip me in the first 5 minutes or so it's unlikely that I'll manage to stay the course.

Will let you know how I get on.....

I watched it, just about to watch it again with dh

umpire1 Sun 20-Oct-13 01:58:29

I'm not sure I get his point, men who aren't violent should take responsibility for the men who are violent??

BuffytheAppleBobber Sun 20-Oct-13 11:53:54

No, it's men who aren't violent should speak up against male violence. Rather than think of it as something that's somebody else's problem. Or fail to notice it as a problem.

Backonthefence Sun 20-Oct-13 23:29:28

Maybe try to get the men in your life to watch it? I doubt many men would watch it though.

DadWasHere Mon 21-Oct-13 04:44:03

I watched both. I have never raised a hand to my wife in over twenty years and I believe my daughters will never accept in their lives, silently or otherwise, the violence my mother willingly put up with (in fact sought out) in hers. That is my legacy to them of the minimum a man should be.

That said what is a violent man in my society going to care about what I say to him, given that all men by now know after many decades that such things are a crime?

Violent men can be educated by experts, caught by police and punished by courts but I wonder if they can only ever be made more angry and resentful by amateurs dabbling in their lives. Hence 'where is mens roar' was the roar of the Cuban motorcycle with which he rescued the woman, not from him confronting the beast to educate him that violence is the wrong path.

rootypig Mon 21-Oct-13 05:37:39

I think he misinterprets the Martin Luther King quote confused

Apart from that nitpicky point, though I appreciate the sentiment and admire that he is making this his life's work, for me he fails to break down the very pillars of masculinity that drive abusive behaviour - the sense of ownership of women ("hey, that could be my sister"), a sort of aggressive and exclusively male concept of 'leadership', painting men as being (in his brave new world) solely responsible for positive outcomes, among others. Somehow he excludes women's power, or agency.

I am also interested that at no point does he talk to the men who are the abusers or misogynists. He is talking to all the decent men out there. Ok yes, the bystander effect is important. But for me, it is still secondary to the work that needs to be done to educate men - all men, almost - to understand the misogynist content of many enormously common and widely accepted behaviours. To recognise their own misogyny. For me, that's almost all men. Because they all go about in a world that is dominated by men, run by men for men, and they're all pretty much ok with it.

.....all this with the caveat that this post reflects my relatively privileged position as an upper working / lower middle class woman who is not immediately at risk of violence.

NeedlesCuties Mon 21-Oct-13 08:06:02

rooty just wanted to add a bit to your comment and say that women of all classes are at risk of abuse. I am assuming you meant that you didn't have an abuser in your life which is why you aren't at risk of violence currently.

That isn't anything to do with your social class and more to do with the fact that your DP isn't violent or that you're single.

BuffytheAppleBobber Mon 21-Oct-13 09:28:48

That said what is a violent man in my society going to care about what I say to him, given that all men by now know after many decades that such things are a crime?

What would be really nice DadWasHere is if male violence became totally socially unacceptable. As socially unacceptable as, say drink driving or child abuse. For it to become that unacceptable, men like you who aren't violent and who think violence is abhorrent need to voice your disapproval. Not shrug and say that you aren't violent, so what else can be expected of you.

rootypig Mon 21-Oct-13 11:43:22

Needles I'm sorry if I sounded like I meant I was not at risk because I am a certain class. I didn't mean that. I meant: the material conditions of my life are alright; I am also not immediately at risk of violence.

Biggedybiggedybongsoitis Mon 21-Oct-13 13:41:18

I like the idea of 'voicing your disapproval' at male violence.

'Excuse me old chap, would you mind awfully not belting your mum/wife/ child etc. It's awfully upsetting' grin

How, exactly?

BuffytheAppleBobber Mon 21-Oct-13 13:44:33

It sounds to me as though you'd let a little social awkwardness put you off expressing your distaste for male violence.

It's not easy expressing an opinion that goes against social convention. But something being difficult doesn't mean it isn't worthwhile. Unless you don't think it's worthwhile?

Biggedybiggedybongsoitis Mon 21-Oct-13 13:53:41

I was being slightly facetious, but I was more wondering at the mechanics. If I see a man belting anyone, I hope i step in and prevent it by any means necessary. That includes, as a last resort, retaliation in order to quell him. Is that what you mean?

If this is acceptable, where does that leave me? As just another violent male? And what if it's a woman dishing it out?

The bit about asking people not to make fun of violence, or tell jokes, or treat it lightly is maybe what you meant. But I see jokey 'I could kill my partner' type stuff on AIBU, for example. And while they clearly don't mean it, doesn't that also normalise violence? What do we - all of us - do about that kind of stuff? My mum told me a DV joke recently - what do I say to that?

BuffytheAppleBobber Mon 21-Oct-13 14:02:05

Like anyone else, you'd have to use your judgement in whatever specific circumstances you found yourself.

I think what this piece is arguing is that if more men's judgement led them to condemn verbally male violence, when it is joked about, mentioned in an offhand way, seen on TV, for example, then it would become more socially unacceptable.

You're not actually looking for advice on how I'd tackle these examples, right?

Biggedybiggedybongsoitis Mon 21-Oct-13 14:37:32

No I wasn't. I was wondering how you expect men to act. Because all the normal people will say that they would stop somebody hitting someone else, that they would act when they see violence, or that they would tell someone what they thought in no uncertain terms, if that person was boasting about violence. So we are in agreement.

scallopsrgreat Mon 21-Oct-13 14:45:36

It isn't all about stopping violence when you see it happening. How often does that happen anyway? I think it is more about challenging attitudes to male violence.

There was a woman I worked with who was trapped up against a wall by her neck by a male colleague. Not only was this man not sacked many other male colleagues whilst on the face of it appeared disapproving kept mentioning how annoying this woman was. So that plays right into the narrative of how a woman's behaviour is somehow deserving of violence.

It is that attitude and culture that needs challenging all the time.

Biggedybiggedybongsoitis Mon 21-Oct-13 14:52:13

Hang on, though. You say it isn't about confronting it when you see it - and then quote an incident where people saw it!

Then there is the other problem. I am not aware of any men who discuss their violent activities, boastfully or otherwise - not in front of me, anyway. So, if all you want me and others like me to do is voice our disapproval when appropriate, then you have my full support.

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