Most women are jailed due to the men in their lives - Vicky Pryce

(61 Posts)
kim147 Mon 14-Oct-13 13:47:28

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24516626

Talking about some of the reasons women end up in jail and their life stories and the way there were treated by men that ended up with them being jailed.

What do people think?

First instinct is that I suspect she's right

Phaserstostun Mon 14-Oct-13 14:01:21

Kim, I like reading your posts. You speak a lot of sense on here. But, honestly, what kind of response to this are you expecting on this particular board? A wide-ranging debate, balanced, with roughly equal numbers of those for and against?

Yougotbale Mon 14-Oct-13 14:03:49

First reason is they break the law, but I definitely think this maybe true when analysing criminals backgrounds. Probably the same for drug addicts, gamblers, eating disorders, etc. relationships effect people.

I'm pissed off she only served 2 months. Why not have a minimum sentencing policy.

meditrina Mon 14-Oct-13 14:08:36

I think it is going too far to say "most" when the bigger (gendered) sentencing issue is the number of women imprisoned for the non-payment of quite small debts.

And of course she is overlooking the proportion of men in prison who come from abusive backgrounds and who have, or cohabit, with someone with substance abuse is also extremely high.

Phaserstostun Mon 14-Oct-13 14:14:40

The proportion of men (not sure about women) in prison who grow up in poverty, and who have extremely low levels of education in the UK is scandalous. In effect, society is failing these people. And that is me, you and everyone else. Not just the menz.

kim147 Mon 14-Oct-13 14:18:59

I've put it on here because it would disappear on chat. There are many people on here who have the stats or information.

And I agree about other reasons why people end up in jail. Education is such a key thing and prison education is not taken seriously.

Skybore Mon 14-Oct-13 14:23:27

I would imagine there are many prisoners (men and women) who will say that they are there because of other people, external factors, bad upbringing, drug habits etc. Thousands of people in this country, men and woman, have faced abuse, poverty and violence and DON'T turn to crime...

She's a devious proven liar who has spent a very small amount of time in Holloway for her crimes, and now she's an expert? Everything that comes out of her mouth is suspect.

Phaserstostun Mon 14-Oct-13 14:25:00

I didn't mean it as a criticism, sorry if it reads that way. It's an interesting point. And of course I amy be proved wrong.

Ms Pryce is a highly qualified, educated, intelligent and articulate white woman. To try to offload her own prosecution as coercion was disingenuous of her, and in a wider context, it's too simplistic for her to propose that so many women are powerless in the face of male behaviour. I do realise I am in the minority here though grin

PenguinsDontEatPancakes Mon 14-Oct-13 14:41:19

Hmmm,

I suspect that Vicki Pryce does make a good point about how women end up in prison.

But I struggle with the idea of Vicki Pryce launching a new career as criminal academic over this debacle. Of course, you don't know another's marriage, but the jury rejected the idea of marital co-ercion. And of course it was her own need for revenge (after separation) that caused the offence to be revealed.

I don't know. I just don't feel quite right about her as a women's right's crusader in this way..

Sausageeggbacon Mon 14-Oct-13 14:42:20

I can't stand her. The whole poor me attitude stinks, she is well educated and knew the risks. Did she think she could play the sympathy card? If he beat her every day that would make sense but she is educated enough to understand the risk and reward system and she got burnt because she decided to lash out.

kim147 Mon 14-Oct-13 14:44:33

It seems several well known people who end up in jail come out as experts on the prison system. But it is good for them to see another world.

EachDay Mon 14-Oct-13 14:45:44

I know two men who are about to be (I expect) jailed for serious fraud.

They were both normal lads happy with their lot until they married women who wanted it all. TBH they probably both married out of their league and were put under tremendous pressure to provide everything their wives though they should have. There was always the threat that if they couldn't do it someone else would. I have no sympathy for them (I lost my job as a result of what they did) Ultimately, of course, they were responsible for their own actions but I think they could argue just as strongly as Vicky Price that they are going to prison because of the people they were married do.

If there is a case to be made it's that a lot of "people" end up in prison because of the actions of other people.

ashleysilver Mon 14-Oct-13 14:48:36

It's not that women are 'powerless' in the face of male behaviour and I don't think many feminists would say that either. It's more nuanced than that. It's linked to the way girls and women are conditioned to try and please others, especially men, even when it is to our detriment.

I am also hmm about VP herself though. She is just trying to to cash in on her celebrity. She is saying something controversial in order to get media attention to promote her book.

MrsDeVere Mon 14-Oct-13 15:00:18

In my experience its true.
My experience is not vast but its more than average.

I used to work for an organisation working with women offenders.

It seemed that the majority of women ended up inside because of something they were doing for some bloke.

That ranged from shop lifting to procurement of underage girls.

Acknowledging the role the men played in their offending is not the same as saying the women had no responsibility for their crimes.

Most of them had MH issues and had been abused. It was a woman only environment out of necessity.

They were not all lovely , misunderstood girlies. Some of them were manipulative and difficult. Most were not.

I don't think what she is saying is controversial. Its what a lot of people in the system know already. If you say it out loud you get accused of being sexist, making excuses etc etc.

She makes a good point when she says if you lock up people who are mentally ill you make just end up with a crap, expensive substitute for a hosptial

Many of the men in the prison system are MH, illiterate, traumatised etc.
Doesn't mean they are innocent. Doesn't mean I think they are poor misunderstood chaps.

But it is what it is.

scallopsrgreat Mon 14-Oct-13 15:01:40

What do you think about this kim?

I think that there is quite a lot of evidence that a great deal of women in jail have been victims of DV. Helena Kennedy talked about this in "Eve was Framed". I'll try and dig it out when I get home.

A very quick google brought this up from New York (disclaimer: I haven't read it in any detail as I am at work but the opening paragraphs seemed relevant to this discussion).

Trills Mon 14-Oct-13 15:03:50

I would imagine there are many prisoners (men and women) who will say that they are there because of other people, external factors, bad upbringing, drug habits etc.

I agree with Skybore.

kim147 Mon 14-Oct-13 15:06:21

I think a lot of people end up in jail due to society letting them down. I do not know the statistics but it would be interesting to know the reasons why women are jailed and if there are differences compared to the reasons men are jailed - is it petty crime, shoplifting etc.

Is it because of relationship breakdown, lack of money and needing money to support a family that they turn to crime?

I don't know enough about this area but I do know that literacy rates amongst all offenders are very low and mental health issues are high.

scallopsrgreat Mon 14-Oct-13 15:07:21

Good post MrsDeVere.

In fact if you google women in prison victims of domestic violence there is quite a lot of stuff out there to back this up.

Onesleeptillwembley Mon 14-Oct-13 15:12:28

As someone who has worked in prisons for a long time I have to say that's bollocks. Some do, some don't. This bitter, unpleasant woman is still blaming other people for her actions.
Some people do, and, as kim said, some people are there due to the system letting them down. The majority are there plain and simply because they broke the law.

Onesleeptillwembley Mon 14-Oct-13 15:14:44

And it's quite patronising to blame men or any other people, as if most women do not have a mind or will of their own. Most do. There are some people on prison I could have just cried for, but believe me - not many.

TheCrackFox Mon 14-Oct-13 15:18:22

It is probably true.

But then I think that cast majority of prisoners (male and female) are in prison because of really shit childhoods.

StillSeekingSpike Mon 14-Oct-13 15:19:28

I think that the overwhelming reason people are in jail is because they got caught- to quote the great criminologist Norman Stanley Fletcher.
And that is much much more likely if you are poor, uneducated and spent your life in care.
Ms Pryce got caught due to arrogance the same as her ex husband.

I think it's probably true.

I also agree with crackfox, and I'd go further and say that I suspect the majority of men in prison are also there because of men.

AlisonClare Mon 14-Oct-13 15:21:57

I'm of the opinion that it is more true than untrue and probably occurs because of a perceived absence of choice rather than waking up in the morning and thinking 'how am I going to be a criminal today?'

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