Miss World 2013 WTF? They have to parade in bikinis......

(46 Posts)
whodunnit Sun 29-Sep-13 01:50:07

I am shocked. I googled miss worlda s it was on the BBC news site that Miss Philipines had won. And I was confronted with a shot of all the entrants lined up in bikinis. In this day and age? Shocking htat we have not moved on from this by now. I am sure that if I read into it, there would be lots of spiel about education and ambition and charity but making them parade in bikinis is just so degrading.

I had not realised that such events had not evolved with the times.

specialsubject Sat 05-Oct-13 21:53:53

these events exist a) because people want to watch them and b) because women volunteer to enter them. In 2013 most people think these events are a total joke. Like the trashier newspapers, the stupid glossy mags, the painful talent competitions -but there is still a market so these stupid things continue.

anyone who enters is presumably prepared to be a bit of a laughing stock, same as models. If they are happy to be a joke for possible money, let them do it.

meditrina Sat 05-Oct-13 07:10:02

I don't think the event needs to evolve.

I'd like to see it end.

That probably won't happen, so instead, I want to see people thinking and talking about what it stands for, and why one such very narrow definition of female appearance and conduct has become so dominant.

mathanxiety Sat 05-Oct-13 05:12:54

That's the thing though -- why do they exist? Why do some women want to have their appearance judged and graded?

And the men's version (assuming you mean body building) really isn't in any way the equivalent as there is also body building for women, and it requires a huge amount of effort and steroids (mostly steroids) to compete.

registary Fri 04-Oct-13 01:00:30

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Sinful1 Fri 04-Oct-13 00:59:15

because it's a beauty pageant entered into by people who wish to have their appearance judged and graded.

you know these things exist for men too? except admittedly they require vastly more effort to compete in.

mathanxiety Thu 03-Oct-13 16:04:13

But why should it be acceptable to judge women according to their beauty or their figures Zatyaballerina?

The idea that this is considered a reasonable choice for women at this point in time is preposterous and it is not at all harmless. It tells men that women may well have talents, brains, etc., but that they are welcome to judge us and rank us according to looks. While this may not be an issue for women who are young and good looking, it really bites women not in the first flush of youth looking for jobs that do not require any special training or education in fields where the bosses are mostly men -- women trying to get a job as a receptionist or secretary or waitress for instance.

Feminists are not siding with religious fanatics. Each group comes at the issue from completely a different perspective. The end result is both would like to see the end of beauty pageants of course, but for different reasons.

zatyaballerina Wed 02-Oct-13 14:39:40

They've always paraded in bikinis, it's a beauty contest, of course they're going to be judged on their all over looks. If you want to be judged on your brains/talent you enter a competition that judges on that basis. All contestants join willingly, they all have something to gain from it; modeling contracts/media opportunities/trophy wife status.... each to their own, if it improves their life, then great. It's harmless and silly but it provides benefits for those who wish to exploit their looks while they have them.

I don't understand 'feminists' siding with religious fanatics in opposing women's rights to decide for themselves what they want to do with their life and how they wish to portray themselves. Just because it's not what you would do, doesn't make it wrong for others.

Beachcomber Wed 02-Oct-13 10:28:20

Aren't they supposed to be unmarried as well? And childless.

Which is creepy and controlling. (And I say that as a person who thinks there are a whole lot of feminist issues with marriage.)

They aren't allowed to make it a rule for them to be virgins but I bet they wish they could.

And all this stereotypical stuff about children's charities is dubious too. Women as carers who love kiddies and want to do things for others. Pah!

mathanxiety Wed 02-Oct-13 00:41:34

Mike Tyson once judged a Miss America pageant iirc.

Actually, he raped a contestant in Miss Black America, a competition he was taking part in as a celebrity judge.

Miss Black America -- think about that one.

mathanxiety Wed 02-Oct-13 00:36:34

A job interview isn't a beauty contest. It is a process of discerning the right person for a particular job. It is not a process of judging people as individuals or of judging them according to their outward appearance as a beauty pageant is.

Those evaluating the candidates are qualified to decide the merits of the candidates relative to the job requirements. Most of the time the candidates will include both men and women. In the case of beauty pageants, the contestants have to be women and they are only held to judge appearance, since anyone with a tither of wit could fulfill the job requirements of any particular beauty pageant winner. Mike Tyson once judged a Miss America pageant iirc.

Some pageants go one distasteful step further into the realm of the obnoxious and punish women who have been found to have some blot on their escutcheon. Vanessa Williams had her crown stripped from her on grounds that photos of her naked body had been published prior to the competition. So conformity to spurious morality is part of what the judges are supposed to bear in mind too.

KaseyM Tue 01-Oct-13 23:41:18

" I do feel rather strongly though when womens decisions or choices (mine included) are disregarded by well-meaning individuals who actually end up influencing women who want to appreciate their looks/femininity"

I really don't think anti-MissWorlders are against the individual choices that women make but are against the wider implications that Miss World has on women in society. I think it's disingenuous to treat something like the objectification of women that happens on such a huge scale as a series of individual choices.

it's big. It has an effect on women and girls.

Sinful1 Tue 01-Oct-13 23:34:32

"women explicitly giving others the right to judge them for anything."

doesn't that cover all forms of competition and testing and heck even job interviews?

mathanxiety Tue 01-Oct-13 20:45:09

I don't think you understood what I wrote, Queenjellybelly.

It is not acceptable for women to be judged on their appearance, and submitting themselves explicitly for judgement on that basis is a stupid and self defeating thing to do because in doing so women acknowledge the right of others to judge them.

I have nothing to say on the subject of men doing the same thing as it is my understanding that men are not actually doing that, in beauty pageants.

Just because judgement of women for their appearance is ubiquitous doesn't mean it is ever right or acceptable and it doesn't mean it should not be examined or criticised whenever the phenomenon arises. I say this about the fundamentalist (of any creed) insistence on women being covered too.

The culture that leads women to choose to participate in pageants or to cover their faces explicitly acknowledges the right of others to judge women. My argument is that nobody has a right to judge women for their appearance, and that women (the ones you don't understand who are not indifferent to pageants) who question normalcy -- that is to say the right of others to judge -- are dead right to do so.

queenjellybelly Tue 01-Oct-13 20:36:58

Actually enjoying this, my first ever mumsnet debategrin. Unfortunately, no longer a Beauty queen & have to go make kids packed lunches & clean the shower. Unless of course, I've missed the point of this entirely & this is more a raging row. In which case, I still stick to my opinion!!! (Just need to get some work donewink)

DebrisSlide Tue 01-Oct-13 20:34:43

May I ask, queenjellybelly - how do you define femininity? How did you reach that definition?

mathanxiety Tue 01-Oct-13 20:32:34

So Cinderella in other words..

And that is a bit patronising about Miss Phillippines surely?

She has been an actress in films and on TV since she moved to the Philippines at age 10 from the US, where she was born. So we are not talking about some shanty town child here.

queenjellybelly Tue 01-Oct-13 20:31:36

Mathanxiety, that is my point exactly! If its not acceptable for women to be judged on anything, then it is equally not acceptable for men. The way of the world is that we ARE judged. In almost every walk of life. Whether it is our appearance, talent or stereotypical views of anyone challenging normalcy. If people choose to put themselves in a position where they will be judged above and beyond this, then they make their own choices to do so. I will continue to struggle to understand the ease with which people (particularly women) condemn these contests when the media creates far greater influence in terms of judging for appearances sake.
Believe it or not, I'm not pro beauty pageants. I'm actually indifferent to them. I do feel rather strongly though when womens decisions or choices (mine included) are disregarded by well-meaning individuals who actually end up influencing women who want to appreciate their looks/femininity..whatever...however they like to the point where they are embarrassed of their looks. The judging works both ways & is not always positive.

FloraFox Tue 01-Oct-13 20:26:34

I, I, I, I, me, me, me How about trying a class analysis? As in, how this event affects other people. I find it offensive when other people's opinion that women are a sex class to be objectified and judged for public consumption is imposed on women as a class.

Amanda either you don't understand feminism or you don't understand irony.

AnandaTimeIn Tue 01-Oct-13 20:23:47

I used to work with "Miss Denmark" oh so many years ago she was lovely.

We were waitressing together. grin

She would occasionally talk about the amazing travels (Miss World competition), and opportunities it afforded her. She was incredibly modest anyway. Thought it was a bit of a joke herself. (more like theatre!). LOL

I don't think anyone has the right to control freak what anyone does in their own life.

Whatever your idealogy.

Miss Philippines winning this competition has most likely helped her to support her extended family....

I would never judge another's way of making a living. (unless criminal!).

Easy to sit from your armchair and condemn it. No problem watching "parading on the beach in a bikini in the summer then?" grin

mathanxiety Tue 01-Oct-13 20:15:48

I respect people's right to hold their opinion but find it offensive when that opinion is imposed in others.

And yet you accepted the right of panelists to impose their view of each and every contestant on them during the competition...

queenjellybelly Tue 01-Oct-13 20:13:01

Amanda. Well said!!! Have a drink to celebrate our femininity! wine

mathanxiety Tue 01-Oct-13 20:12:08

I'm not disputing that these women are being judged on their looks, poise, presentation. These are beauty pageants!! They are NOT being judged on talent or whether they are mensa pentathletes!

Well that's the problem.

I would personally find it more harmful to be judged on something such as my intelligence or talent & be found wanting! Fortunately, I recognise my own intelligence & can appreciate my own worth despite not having won every contest I ever entered.

And so it should be with your appearance and poise or whatever else goes into it.

It has nothing to do with poor body confidence among women. That is their own issue. The whole problem is women explicitly giving others the right to judge them for anything.

AnandaTimeIn Tue 01-Oct-13 20:07:29

I find it one of life's little ironies that feminists and fundamental misogynistic Muslims both condemn Miss World grin

^^

queenjellybelly Tue 01-Oct-13 19:59:27

I'm not disputing that these women are being judged on their looks, poise, presentation. These are beauty pageants!! They are NOT being judged on talent or whether they are mensa pentathletes! I would personally find it more harmful to be judged on something such as my intelligence or talent & be found wanting! Fortunately, I recognise my own intelligence & can appreciate my own worth despite not having won every contest I ever entered. It certainly never did me or anyone else I know any harm, & I can honestly say it has added significantly to my life experiences & confidence which I am pretty certain have contributed to my success in my long standing career. A career, I might add, where good looks can be detrimental. In many cases these pageants have been a platform for individuals (men as well as women) to move on to successful careers in promotions, modelling, acting, advertising, fashion & 'behind the scenes' work. In my case, following a radio interview, I quite surprisingly ended up as a radio DJ for a while! I can't speak for miss world, (I never got that far!) but leading up to miss uk, it was a requirement to raise money for local childrens charities. I get that some people like to rip this kind of thing to shreds & understand that, once upon a time it may have contributed to young women having poor body confidence, but no more than the use of air brushing & photoshop in magazines. In fact, it is much lower profile now & barely makes the local paper. In the wider scheme of things I really cannot see what the big deal is. Perhaps this is because I respect people's right to hold their opinion but find it offensive when that opinion is imposed in others. I understand that not everyone holds this view.

mathanxiety Tue 01-Oct-13 19:34:24

And it's about women going along with the judging and even encouraging it.

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