White working-class boys at the bottom of the class

(36 Posts)
aceofflower Sun 15-Sep-13 01:31:38

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2236472/White-working-class-boys-the-class-aged-just-five.html

Is this the fault of the evil feminists? Or is it more likely because girls are now given equal rights their intelligence is coming out and exposing boys as how stupid they really are?

Chotter Mon 16-Sep-13 11:37:39

We judge by gender. We judge by clothing. We judge by accent. We judge by language and grammar. We judge by what car they drive, where they live, what tv they watch, what magazines and books they read, what school they went to, etc etc.

I do anyway, but then I am a judgemental snob wink

Yes we do Chotter, but imagine two scenarios for a moment:

The first is that you glance at someone briefly, take in their physique, hairstyle and coat and address them using a female pronoun. They are silent, you look again and realise they are male. How much of a faux pas do you feel you've made? How awkward is the situation now?

The second is you hear a few words in a strong regional accent and address the person as...uh... oh. There are no words that convey their status as either posh or well off, is there. You don't need to categorise them just to talk to them. Yet we need to know someone's gender so we can talk to them using the right mode of address.

See what I mean? Gender is THE category. It seems to me.

JakeBullet Mon 16-Sep-13 13:35:50

Hoping and praying that the OP does not have any sons...if she does then I pity them. sad

Lottapianos Mon 16-Sep-13 13:37:33

'Early Years education favours the way boys learn, by being more fluid, learning by doing etc etc, so surely, if EY is so very important, then boys should be doing better?'

The way boys learn? Not all boys are the same. Not all girls are the same. It's downright dangerous to assume that children (or adults for that matter) will behave and learn in a particular way just because of their biological sex.

Abra1d Mon 16-Sep-13 13:44:30

I suspect some (not all) of the problem with the achievement of white working class boys lies with white working class men.

I know of families round here where the fathers never ever attend an event at the boys' primary or secondary schools. No parents' evenings. No sports days. They do not read to their boys. They do not listen to them read. They regard school and the family's relationship to it as their wives'/partners' 'work'. They think it's acceptable to take their sons out of school to spend a day on the X-box. We are friends with a family where the boys' success in getting good apprenticeships in sought-after companies is entirely down to the mother's efforts over 14 years and despite the lack of interest from the father.

Perhaps, for the reasons Math gives in relation to Northern Ireland (thanks for that--very interesting), this will change as fathers realise that jobs in apprenticeships or in the local car works are now very rare and precious things and more educational qualifications are essential.

Chotter Mon 16-Sep-13 15:20:29

I wonder how significant this 'failure' is. If we take the education system as a whole, we could divide the participants up in many ways - by gender, social class, geography, ethnicity, religious beliefs etc etc. Whichever way you slice this cake, it is highly likely that a group will appear at the bottom of the table each time. Question is, how do we know if it is significant? How far away are the bottom group from the mean or median? I am sure there are some statisticians here who might be able to clarify this. I don't know.

kim147 Mon 16-Sep-13 19:46:55

It's real. White boys on FSM don't do very well. So many reasons.

Chotter Mon 16-Sep-13 21:00:02

What do you see as the major reasons kim?

mathanxiety Tue 17-Sep-13 07:17:33

The UK has the largest gap between high and low achievers in Europe. It also has the highest level of correlation between social class and achievement or non-achievement.

zippey Wed 18-Sep-13 01:59:56

I think the OP's post is crass and makes her sound like a man hating feminist cliché.

Is this the fault of the evil feminists? Or is it more likely because girls are now given equal rights their intelligence is coming out and exposing boys as how stupid they really are?

It doesn't do anyone any good to hate men, or classify them as stupid. A lot of feminists are married to men or have children who will become men. And just because you do not do well in school does not mean you are stupid.

mathanxiety Wed 18-Sep-13 04:02:31

I agree

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