Explaining the bleeding obvious - why do we do it?

(41 Posts)
rosabud Wed 21-Aug-13 21:24:25

I really enjoy reading the posts on here, they are informative, thought-provoking, funny etc etc. However, I can't bear it when certain posters appear and try to pretend that something patently untrue is actually true and instead of saying, "no that's ridiculous and clearly untrue", we all spend time and energy explaining, linking to research, proving that, in fact, it's untrue.

Let's say I join the Oxfam website and engage in forums where people keep discussing why many people in the Third World are suffereing from illness and starvation. Imagine if i kept posting, "but some people in the UK are under just as much threat from starvation as people in the third world - it's an equally serious problem." Would all the Oxfam people spend time and energy proving to me that, despite there being some very poor peole in the UK, it is not the case that it is an equally serious problem? Or would they just say, "you are clearly incapable of recognising the bleeding obvious and, for that reason, there's no real point anyone on our website trying to talk to you about the serious issues n the Third World."?

Why do we all feel tht we hve to keep "proving" that domestic violence affects women more than it does men? Of course it does. Anyone in our society who has more than half a brain cell can see that. Anyone who cannot accept this, for whatever reason, is going to be equally incapable of engaging with any serious analysis of any major issue.

Sorry if it's not the done thing to rant about this - but I can't help it, feel so frustrated about it!

I know what you mean. I just shake my head and roll eyes.

But am impressed by, and grateful to, the diligent, patient posters who argue against the shallow posters trying to criticise feminism. I feel if a post is ignored it looks like we can't refute it rather than we're ignoring it.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Wed 21-Aug-13 21:42:40

You are right rosa - I've said it myself so many times, but I just got sucked into that other thread. Like I don't have better things to do than argue with trolls.

BUt saying that - I do agree with Sauceforthegander too - I like that so many posters DO refute them.

Grrrr.

EarthMither Wed 21-Aug-13 21:48:58

Damn right OP - it's seriously annoying and also often used as a surreptitious derailing technique imo. There's a great piece on this by Lindy West here

Brilliant link Earth. Maybe we just agree to post that ?

I think that because there is so much in our culture that victim blames and minimises issues like DV that some people may need the bleeding obvious to be pointed out to them. Others, clearly, have an agenda, no doubt.

I don't know about others here, but my feminism has been a sort of awakening to the issues facing women, and if nobody pointed out the bleeding obvious then that might not have happened.

Are we talking about genuine mischief making or ignorance?

Ignorance.

But I'm also thinking of lurkers who see replies to the mischief makers.

EarthMither Wed 21-Aug-13 22:20:33

That's a really good point Buffy - I suppose the Lindy West link could be used in cases of last resort though (along with the altogether snappier response of "JFGI"*).

*Just Fucking Google It

Thanks.

<eyes score sheet>

Makes really good point + 10
Starts well-meaning thread that irritates everyone and attracts "guests" - 1,000

blush

rosabud Wed 21-Aug-13 22:30:16

Yes, that's true, Buffy, perhaps there are a lot of lurkers who might otherwise be tempted to listen to the mischief makers if we didn't keep refuting it. I, too, am grateful to the posters who keep going with it. It's just so frustrating.

LeStewpot Wed 21-Aug-13 22:32:18

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

rosabud Wed 21-Aug-13 22:32:19

Oh, crossed post. Should I not have started this? I'm never quite sure what is OK and what isn't. Yes, it was well-meaning though blush

LeStewpot Wed 21-Aug-13 22:33:22

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

No, I didn't mean you Rosa, I meant me! You are fine, clean sheet as far as I know. Hope I didn't upset you.

...not that I keep creepy score sheets or anything, you understand...

<digs deeper>

It can feel like ground hog day. The same ignorant questions asked day in day out.

I see it on the No more page 3 campaign FB page and it can be hard to remain well mannered. I know they (the objectors) think they are making ground breaking irrefutable points about sat, press freedom, but it's a question that is posed and replied to daily.

But Buffy is right when she says assume that a whole new audience is available and today is the day that we enlighten and educate. We miss that chance if we say "fuck off"

rosabud Wed 21-Aug-13 22:39:14

Oh, I see!! smile

Err....well actually I did upset everyone once on Am I being Unreasonable, so have not ventured back there since! blush

EarthMither Wed 21-Aug-13 22:39:44

No need to apologise OP - you've raised an issue which is a perennial problem for feminists both online and elsewhere (plus I got to share Ms West's excellent piece, which always makes me happy smile).

People hang out on AIBU wanting to be upset!

EarthMither Wed 21-Aug-13 22:45:17

Indeed Sauce - OP, don't let those numbnuts on AIBU break your stride. As another poster commented earlier today, AIBU is a "holding pit for internet fools" (nice one, Winnicas, if you're reading this).

ITCouldBeWorse Wed 21-Aug-13 22:45:38

Good information is never wasted. 'Common sense' beliefs can seem obvious but are sometimes flawed. It is common sense to see the earth is flat smile

So those poster who take the trouble to show robust, evidence based info, do spread accurate info.

People holding some views which seem traditional and sound, when they see a radically different viewpoint are sometimes surprised into taking it on board!

EarthMither Wed 21-Aug-13 22:57:42

Weirdly enough, this just popped up on my Twitter feed - an interesting counterpoint to West's piece which reiterates Buffy's POV above and ITCouldBe's post.

WhentheRed Wed 21-Aug-13 23:56:00

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

rosabud Thu 22-Aug-13 00:03:23

That is a brilliant answer - and lessens my frustration slightly! Thank you.

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