So .. bye? DUNNO!

(38 Posts)
StickEmUp Tue 20-Aug-13 13:29:07

So really truly, I don't expect anyone to CARE pe se, but maybe some understanding would be nice. If not, no biggie!

In a few short months I went from 'What is feminism' to 'I'm a radfem'.
I think at this point I am changing back to 'StickEm'

Over the months of research I've done, I've found out some terrible things all over the planet for no other reason than 'Vagina'.
I've pondered it. I've discussed this with friends, who going by RF thinking, hate women. These were my friends! 'Yes to anon for rape accusees'
WHAT! I know!
I did some really REALLY low level experiments. Not wearing make up. Not shaving my legs (pathetic I know).
It felt, good but weird (not to mention a waste of the thousands of pounds of slap I have grin )

I can't actually go on for long about it, but after some careful thought I have decided: Leave it.

Am I a bad person? MAYBE Can I emotionally handle the conversations I seem to have and read around this subject. No.

I am truly thankful for all the Feminist wisdom from this board, my eyes are open and I cannot close them totally - it just feels like a bad dream I can't wake from.

Can I be a feminist' without doing anything?

Can I?

On a similar note, although she is on a whole other level to me, Femonade recently blogged she's giving it up to (probably)

Interesting.

LOVE
Stick.

TeiTetua Tue 20-Aug-13 14:06:15

Sounds like you're saying that where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise.

And that Femonade person is giving it up to (probably) do what?

Wonderstuff Tue 20-Aug-13 14:16:35

My attitude to make up is I won't wear it always, it's not part of my routine, but some days it makes me feel better, so I wear it. I don't dye my hair, I don't think I should have to look younger, men don't.

I really don't think feminism is something I do. It's something I am.

StickEmUp Tue 20-Aug-13 14:21:19

Tei Totally.
Wonder Interesting. I guess I thought there had to be some action, maybe not.

There has to be SOME kind of outward action, surely?
Hence my 'bye' of sorts.

I can't be arsed to argue again and again over what equal rights mean etc.

I've looked back and the same people have been doing that on this board for YEARS and YEARS and YEARS and .....
I can only imagine what RL is like.

I admire the energy.

I simply don't have it.

StickEmUp Tue 20-Aug-13 14:22:13

I don't know what femonade does apart form blog. She doesn't say.
I assume she has a paid job.

FrigginRexManningDay Tue 20-Aug-13 14:34:51

I like make up,I like experimenting with different styles,techniques, products. I don't do it to make myself more attractive to men or pleasing to look at or because its expected. I like how it can make a face look different. It also doesn't bother me not to wear it,as I said its nothing to do with men or society,I'm an artistic sort of person and make up is an extension of that. I'm also fine with a man wearing make up if he wants to.

StickEmUp Tue 20-Aug-13 14:37:33

I started off as a hairdresser and it's part of the industry of course.
I love painting my face. I think I'm a bit vain though!

scallopsrgreat Tue 20-Aug-13 14:53:30

StickEmUp I think a lot of feminists feel as you do from time to time. It all seems well, overwhelming! And it is. Especially as you seemed to ahve jumped in with both feet, so to speak and gone from 0 to 90 in a short space of time. Once the eyes are opened it is impossible to shut them again.

But you have to look after yourself. Taking a back seat, just observing is part of that. However, I'll bet you'll find that your thought processes will have changed. The way you approach decisions, relationships and conflict will be different just because your conciousness has been raised. The way you read articles and hear what people say will be different too. So I think you will actually be more 'active' than you imagine.

You may just find you need a bit of a break and will come back vigour renewed smile

Take care!

StickEmUp Tue 20-Aug-13 15:24:46

Thanks. I guess it came to a head when my dearest friend victim blamed women re: attacks, and placed responsibility on clothing.

I didn't have the engery to fight back, HE won't change his view. It is marred by bad experiances of women.

I feel bad for not responding. I didnt have the emotional energy.
I let the side down, I feel.

But I can't fight everyone. It feels like too much of an uphill struggle.

FourGates Tue 20-Aug-13 15:42:57

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FloraFox Tue 20-Aug-13 15:47:17

stick I read your earlier posts about your journey into feminism and I was really impressed by the way you through yourself into it. Don't feel bad about finding what works for you, you're right, you can't fight everyone. Focus on what you can do rather that feeling bad about what yiu can't. I think scallop's advice is wise.

Take care!

FloraFox Tue 20-Aug-13 15:47:42

Threw not through

scallopsrgreat Tue 20-Aug-13 15:53:56

I am sorry your friend is being a jerk StickEmUp. I have to confess I'd be cautious of him tbh. He doesn't sound like he has much respect for women in general.

LRDPomogiMnyeSRabotoi Tue 20-Aug-13 15:54:29

Oh, no, don't go!

I would say: of course you can be a feminist 'without doing anything'. But I don't believe you are doing nothing. You don't have to be doing something every minute of every day, but so what?

I do know how you feel. I constantly flip-flop between thinking 'wow, I'm furious about x, y and z and I must change them' to missing how I used to enjoy settling down with Vogue (which, fortunately, has got shitter than it used to be as well as unfeministy) or whatever.

I think something I struggle with is that a lot of the 'treats' that are easily accessible are either less enjoyable, or feel like a unfeministy kind of thing, if you get into feminism. And I find it's easy to feel there's nothing to replace that except high thinking and burning activism, which aren't really sustainable long-term for most of us.

I think one of the things we have to do is get better at finding lovely things that help us recharge our batteries, as well as being furious and activisty and whatnot.

I'm never sure what the solution is (I had a thread on feminist ways of feeling good about yourself yonks ago that some people really found offensive because it sounded too close to S&B stuff). But for a shortcut, I would say, for god's sake just enjoy painting your face if you want to, and don't fight everyone. It's not like someone is keeping score and cares how many arguments you win for the feminist stide - it's also important you feel ok in yourself and respect your own need for a bit of downtime.

Isn't being a feminist something you are rather than something you do IYSWIM?

I wouldn't say I actually "do" being a feminist, although I have challenged many ignorant views and made sure my dd and DS see things in what could be considered a feminist way.

StickEmUp Tue 20-Aug-13 16:00:09

Thanks for being kind. I love the eloquency of this board, if I said things how they pop into my head I'd be banned I think. I just don't DO balance sometimes very well.

If I wasn't friends with anyone who didn't have some kind of dodgy view of the world I think I'd be friendless. We all have out 'things' and our reasons.

My friend is very aware that I don't share his view. We disagree and discuss a whole heap of things. He's an academic and I am not.
On other subjects, he saves my life. So you see, it's not very clear cut.

If I am completely honest, I do wonder, if I could unlearn what I know about feminism and MRA stuff, and how much women are globally hated worldwide.
Y'know, I just might ;-)

And, for those who recognise me, I might cry. I sometimes feel invisible, Online and IRL <my stuff>

LRDPomogiMnyeSRabotoi Tue 20-Aug-13 16:05:06

Oh, lovely, don't cry.

You're definitely not invisible.

I would say ... I'm dead wary of academic blokes. In the nicest possible way - is he trading on that a bit, do you think?

StickEmUp Tue 20-Aug-13 16:07:46

although I have challenged many ignorant views and made sure my dd and DS see things in what could be considered a feminist way.

This is definitely doing something.
I'm talking about probably doing even less!

And if everyone does the same as me, what then?
My husband is a hairs breadth away from being a feminist, my brothers are very nice, my Dad, well he's a bit of a hairy arsed builder type but what can you do. My immediate men are all heroes to me in one way or another.

I just feel a bit 'I'm alright jack' and I've just berated someone for that on the other thread (Congo). Ha!

Lots of great advice for me here though, I appreciate it.

StickEmUp Tue 20-Aug-13 16:09:49

is he trading on that a bit, do you think He wouldnt say it about himself.
I don't want to say too much but it's not what you think, or maybe you do.
He's done lots of different things as jobs, and has lots of opinions I agree with.

Sorry I can't really go into it further, I will bear it in mind.

LRDPomogiMnyeSRabotoi Tue 20-Aug-13 16:11:24

Oh, give yourself a break! grin

You know what I've done today? I've washed DH's laundry, put it on the line, cleaned the kitchen, and emailed a female relative to respond to an invitation on behalf of my husband issued from her husband.

And I've faffed on MN for a while, while adding to the tonnage of writing about male authors for male readers.

Whereas you've at least gone and berated someone.

I actually think knowing nice men and talking to them is a huge thing.

LRDPomogiMnyeSRabotoi Tue 20-Aug-13 16:11:58

Cross post - ah, ok. Sorry, of course, I don't want to pry. It was just a vague thought.

scallopsrgreat Tue 20-Aug-13 16:12:50

Oh I know relationships are complex and not clear cut StickEmUp, don't worry. Just be aware and take care of yourself (((hugs)))

You are definitely not invisible, though (but I know how you feel sometimes)!

StickEmUp Tue 20-Aug-13 16:15:04

Haha, I posted here a few weeks ago that DH was re spraying my bonnet and I was putting his washed boxers away.

Someone said I could give the re spray a go.

I didnt say it ... sorry I can't remember who it was. But I though. Nah.

See! I'm shit.

<break given> grin

LRDPomogiMnyeSRabotoi Tue 20-Aug-13 16:20:16

grin

Blistory Tue 20-Aug-13 16:28:52

Another one saying please don't go.

I find that it can be really difficult making sure that my actions are supportive of women, particularly in the workplace, all of the time and since I discovered more about feminism, I've discovered that ther is now a constant but tiring awareness.

Constantly being aware of how news is reported, constantly being aware of sexist language, constantly being aware of discrimination against women, constantly being the one who brings the conversation down from a joke about rape to a serious discussion, constantly being aware of friends lives and how they are treated, constantly being disappointed by society. It never goes away.

I feel like I've found religion and that I'm boring people with my evangelical feminist stance. I've done the whole denying I'm a feminist, rejecting radical feminists as nutcases, supporting rape myths, doing things that aren't supportive of women or considered particularly feminist. Then I went through a shouty angry phase ( my mother called it particularly strident) and now I'm back in touch with my liberal feminist stance, with a tendency towards a wee bit of radicalism and I refuse to beat myself up anymore.

That's not to say that sometimes it doesn't still get me really down. Much as I want to engage with posters who just don't get it, it is really frustrating and some times, soul destroying. I've decided that if someone refuses to listen or persists with a dogged determination that feminism isn't needed, then it really is ok to disengage or occasionally tell them to go the fuck away. Their problem, not mine.

There are things I won't let slide where it comes to DV or rape and I refuse to engage with someone who simply wants to have an academic argument to demonstrate that they are right simply for the sake of superiority.

If I want to shave my legs, I do and accept that it's ok not to sweat the small stuff because I at least understand the small stuff whereas before it was unthinking.

But you're right to feel tired and fed up and to want less confrontation - I think we all go through that.

The great thing about these boards is that, when it's obvious that someone is feeling particularly fed up and demoralised by it all, there's always someone else ready to step in and patiently explain things to the latest troll or those genuinely wishing to have a meaningful discussion. I love it when I can switch off and watch those posters set out well balanced and thoughtful arguments without involving myself. Sometimes I can do that, other times I'm the one shouting and getting deleted. But someone always has the back of women on here.

So lurk when needed, post when you want, take the support offered but remember that life before feminism wasn't actually any better, just less aware.

You haven't let me down.

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