"Men on Strike"

[PeaceAndHope]

Dr. Helen Smith a men's rights activist and psychologist has written a book called "Men on Strike" about how men are rejecting marriage and fatherhood because society is so unjust to them.

Anyone read it?

This is the gist of what she has to say-

online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324577904578559501706287178.html

www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=10836621

www.babble.com/babble-voices/a-complementary-angle-rich-hailey/are-men-on-strike-or-are-we-being-fired/

Thoughts? I've read it and I think it's rubbish. It's another piece that whines about how women are taking steps towards equality and this is apparently bothersome to some men.

Keep in mind that the book is written in the American context.

[YoniBottsBumgina]

Sounds great to me! Men who would make terrible husbands and fathers are opting out of marriage and fatherhood - win/win surely?

[PeaceAndHope]

YoniBottsBumgina LOL. Very pertinent point indeed

Love your screen name by the way!

[LRDYaDumayuIThink]

Erm.

I've not read it.

But I think a basic understanding of history pretty conclusively proves she is as wrong as a wrong thing.

Men have at many times been uninvolved in child rearing. In deeply misogynistic societies. There is a correlation between advances in rights for women/decreases in shitty behaviour amongst men, and male involvement in rearing children.

[greenhill]

Same old, same old, surely?

Some men have had children and abandoned them and their wives/ partners throughout history. If there were less men like this marrying and having children, it can only be a good thing...let their selfish and useless genes die out and more useful, supportive men procreate and support their partners and children.

[CaptChaos]

With no-fault divorce, adultery is on par with slurping soup?so what's wrong with a cheating wife's getting half the marital property? is the tagline from the WSJ's piece. What's right with a cheating husband getting half as well?

I think Dr Smith should be applauded really, with her 'anecdotal evidence' she should hopefully remove all the time-wasters and misogynistic men from the gene pool, and then we should have only responsible, supportive and caring parents actually parenting.

So basically what everyone else has said really!

[TeiTetua]

We could end up like Japan, where women and men just don't find good reasons to get married, and hardly any children end up being born.

[YoniBottsBumgina]

Oh I see it's referring to fathers who abandon their wife and DC. I thought it meant just that men were choosing not to get married/have children in the first place. Silly me that's not called going on strike it's just being selfish.

[PeaceAndHope]

No, it's about both actually. Why they don't want to get married and then why they are "afraid" to leave when they are in "abusive" marriages (because DW will take all the money in courts). And then of course about why men aren't attracted to fatherhood and marriage and end up leaving.

[samandi]

Uusually said by men who have been aiming to high and got rejected once too often. Or those who think they've been hard done by after running off with another woman once they've had kids with the wife. The poor dears don't realise that normal men - who don't have unhealthy relationships with and views of women - are continuing to get married (or not, if neither wants to or sees the need) and enjoy happy lives with their wives/partners/families ...

[FreyaSnow]

It seems to be bringing together issues without showing any relationship between them. Couples who split up in a relatively peaceful manner generally come to the agreement that whoever the children spent most time with before the split should be the person they spend the most time with after the split. If people go to court, society is generally of the same opinion, because they see it as in the best emotional interests of children.

On hearing of that situation, why would teenage boys decide they don't want to go to university or get a job?

And where is this happening? Putting aside recent issues of the recession, hasn't there over the last fifty years been a massive rise in the number of men who go to university? There has been a greater rise in the number of women but that doesn't change the fact that far more boys stay in school longer and go on to university than ever before.

I find it confusing because half of MRAs (red pill and so on) seem to be saying that women are ruining society and their own lives by not having kids early enough because they want to spend their twenties sleeping with multiple partners, and now this writer (presumably representing another bunch of MRAs) is saying it is actually men who are the ones who no longer want to get married and have kids. I suppose MRAs are as divided over what they think as any other bunch of activists.

[SigmundFraude]

'We could end up like Japan, where women and men just don't find good reasons to get married, and hardly any children end up being born.'

Almost every article about this phenomenon has stated that it's pretty much the men alone who won't get married, or even have sex. They are called 'grass eaters' and it's a huge problem. Many more women than men attend uni and are bagging the higher paid jobs, however, men are still expected to fully support the family, so men are just opting out of pretty much all traditionalism and relationships. It's a very interesting subject, actually.

I read an article, will find the link if I still had it, by a Japanese woman, basically calling on Japanese men to 'man up' and start acting like men again!

I reckon in 500 years time (or maybe a lot less), we'll be back in a kind of dark age, because basically all the people who need to breed (the ones who are more likely to advance society) won't. Society is dumbing down rapidly. Not that I give a toss particularly, I won't be around to see it. It'll be a bit crap for my descendants though.

[samandi]

I find it confusing because half of MRAs (red pill and so on) seem to be saying that women are ruining society and their own lives by not having kids early enough because they want to spend their twenties sleeping with multiple partners, and now this writer (presumably representing another bunch of MRAs) is saying it is actually men who are the ones who no longer want to get married and have kids. I suppose MRAs are as divided over what they think as any other bunch of activists.

Gawd, don't try and understand MRAs. They're the biggest bunch of loonies I've ever interacted with. Basically, I gather that women are supposed to be chaste unless the MRA in question wants to sleep with a woman, in which case she's an uptight lesbian feminist for refusing them. Women are supposed to sign away their lives in return for "protection". They should not be entitled to any financial recompense for giving up their careers and spending their lives changing nappies and scrubbing dishes. I could go on ... but it gets pretty boring.

[TheCrackFox]

There are 7 billion people on this planet - is it really such a big deal if you few MRA's opt out of the whole shebang?

[Darkesteyes]

WhentheRedFri 02-Aug-13 23:41:52


It always strikes me as odd that MRAs rail against marriage because they hate being viewed as a meal ticket but then rail against feminism because it deprives them of their role as provider and protector.


MRAs = bunch of gaslighters.

[TeiTetua]

I was the one who talked about Japanese people just not wanting to get married, and SigmundFraude's suggestion was that it's principally the men. Maybe that's true, but here's a quote from the Wikipedia article about "Marriage in Japan":

Young women are instead indulging in a lifestyle centred on friends, work, and spending disposable income; unmarried Japanese adults typically live with their parents, and thus save on household expenses, and increasing the amount of money available to spend on their own entertainment. Sociologist Masahiro Yamada gave these young adults the label "parasitic singles". Some young women reacted by creating business cards with their names and the title "Parasite Single" on them. Japanese media has given heavy coverage to the decline in Japan's birthrate, but the trend continues.

And the same search came up with this, where there's a poor young woman who's seeing difficulties whatever she does (and most likely, she's unfortunately right):
www.monad.com/sdg/Journal/kiyomi.html

She says "I saw the reality that women who were around 24 years old quit their jobs one after another because of marriage...When I was a kid, I was disappointed with the idea of marriage, and decided to become a working woman. However, as I grew up, I couldn't help accepting that marriage is an important issue. That was a shock for me. Now, I'll be 25 years old soon, so it'll be getting difficult to rely on marriage to get the stable status. Even now when I talk to my father in Japan on the phone, he says that English isn't important in Japan, so quit studying and come back to marry. That also gives me stress because I know he is right, but I don't want to do it. Therefore, I just believe in myself and make an effort although I don't have much confidence about my future."