Male feminists and porn

(163 Posts)
AmyFarrahFowlerCooper Mon 15-Jul-13 11:09:12

Can a man who believes he is a feminist be interested in porn? Or does that kind of negate his believing he is a feminist?

MiniTheMinx Mon 15-Jul-13 13:02:18

I suppose he could believe he is anything he likes, the proof of the matter is in what other people think he is.

CiscoKid Mon 15-Jul-13 13:04:27

Some women on this board identify themselves as feminists and are okay with porn (at least some of it). Why should a man be any different?

Trills Mon 15-Jul-13 13:06:58

I agree with CiscoKid.

Trills Mon 15-Jul-13 13:12:51

If you believe that no feminist can be interested in porn, then you will think that anyone (male or female) who says that they are a feminist but likes porn is wrong.

If you believe that it is possible to be a feminist and to be interested in porn, then there's no reason why it wouldn't be possible for a man.

teetering13 Mon 15-Jul-13 13:14:42

I'd say yes, because wanting equality for the sexes doesn't mean you don't/are not allowed to get off on watching people shag

CiscoKid Mon 15-Jul-13 13:17:41

Because, of course, male-only porn does exist. Surely someone who watches that cannot be exploiting women?

MyHumpsMyLovelyBabyBumps Mon 15-Jul-13 14:00:09

I think it might depend on the porn. most heterosexual porn is very misogynistic and if you're getting off on a cock being shoved up a woman's arse and then down her her throat and then doubling all over her... I'm going to question your credentials

MyHumpsMyLovelyBabyBumps Mon 15-Jul-13 14:01:08

spunking not doubling. my phone doesn't approve of the word

scallopsrgreat Mon 15-Jul-13 16:03:07

No
Yes

CiscoKid Mon 15-Jul-13 16:11:46

Scallops, do you think any feminist can like porn?

scallopsrgreat Mon 15-Jul-13 16:23:21

Why do you ask? The OP wasn't asking about female behaviour (for once). They were asking about male behaviour. As the vast majority of porn is made by men for men at the expense of women it isn't a zero sum game. A man purporting to be a feminist needs to be aware of his privilege. Watching porn is maintaining that privilege.

CiscoKid Mon 15-Jul-13 16:26:13

I asked because some women feminists on here like porn. I wonder if you have a problem with that. But, you are right, it's off on a tangent so you don't have to answer.

LRDYaDumayuIThink Tue 16-Jul-13 08:21:39

What scallops said.

Beachcomber Tue 16-Jul-13 09:00:30

The porn industry is extremely misogynistic. Porn is hate speech against women. If you think of it in political analysis terms, porn is propaganda for male supremacist society.

I would be very hmm at a man who consumes porn and claims to be a feminist.

Porn is very pervasive (especially since the development of the internet) so there are lots of people who consume it who are no doubt nice people who wish women well and consider themselves to be supportive of feminism. And we are not encouraged to politically analyse porn - we are encouraged to unthinkingly consume it.

Personally I think it is deluded to think one can consume porn and not internalize its misogynistic and racist messages, stereotypical portrayal of women as male defined 'types', hypermasculinity and violence. Especially if one is reinforcing those messages by jacking off to them.

(I also think that female consumption of porn is a different phenomenon to that of male consumption but that is probably best discussed on a separate thread.)

Beachcomber Tue 16-Jul-13 09:02:14

And what scallops said about privilege.

CiscoKid Tue 16-Jul-13 09:05:40

I don't have a problem understanding of the points of view expressed on here, other than your last one, Beach. That standpoint confuses me. But if you don't want to follow it up here, that's cool too.

Beachcomber Tue 16-Jul-13 09:17:05

I don't mind following it up Cisco but don't want to take the thread off topic.

I also don't want to turn a discussion which is focusing on male behaviour to one that focuses on female behaviour. In feminist discussions this can often happen and it is often done to camouflage or justify male behaviour (I'm not saying that is what is being done here). It is the 'women do it too' argument stopper.

Briefly, for me, women consuming porn is internalized sexism and men watching porn is just plain sexism (misogyny actually).

MiniTheMinx Tue 16-Jul-13 09:50:16

What Beach said 100%

Women watching porn.......I have often wondered whether some of it is to do with the fact that women are socialised to be submissive. So much of our sexuality would be influenced by societal norms, upbringing, early experiences & expectations. Porn that is violent, disturbing and depicts women as suffering,(that would be most) those women are acting in the way circumscribed to them, the women viewer is invited to submit herself to internalising that mode of behaviour, to become submissive and embrace suffering. Its almost as though women are made to suffer, so that in consuming the messages that make us feel the most uncomfortable, we are at that point suffering as well. But because this is deemed the "natural state" of womenhood we should enjoy it and internalise those messages and modes of behaviour. I now get why some feminists have been scathing about BDSM and why housewives martyr themselves in pursuit of perfect cakes and white washing.

And no, men who watch porn are not feminist, well not one I would recognise.

curlew Tue 16-Jul-13 09:53:20

What Beach said.

There are some feminist deal breakers- porn is one.

Isoscelesnorks Tue 16-Jul-13 09:54:24

Is it male on male porn your interested in then yes that could be ok

CiscoKid Tue 16-Jul-13 10:03:44

Okay, thanks for your answer, Beach.

AmyFarrahFowlerCooper Tue 16-Jul-13 10:31:54

Thank you for the replies everybody. It was male/female porn I was particularly thinking of as I was thinking of a particular conversation I had with someone which made me a bit hmm when he claimed he was a feminist but at the same time regularly watches porn. I don't personally think a feminist could enjoy porn which is why it automatically made me doubt he is a feminist in any way other than claiming to be one.

Beachcomber Tue 16-Jul-13 10:46:50

You're welcome Cisco.

AmyFarrahFowlerCooper - maybe he is one of those men who 'loves women' hmm

Maybe he thinks porn is empowerfulising and liberating for women and he just loves watching laydeez get pornified getting empowered and fucked liberated!

(Except he probably refers to them as 'girls')

What about porn that isn't misogynistic, out of interest? I.e. is it the getting off on watching other people do sexy things that's the problem, or is it the treatment of women in most porn?

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