What we already knew: women are happier after divorce than men are

(29 Posts)
BasilBabyEater Fri 12-Jul-13 23:06:51
Darkesteyes Sat 13-Jul-13 14:56:50
Darkesteyes Sat 13-Jul-13 14:54:57

Basil it has a thread all to itself I started one in Relationships "Is this financial abuse or am i reading it wrong"

BasilBabyEater Sat 13-Jul-13 07:59:45

3/5 of lone parents don't get maintenance.

The government's response to this, is to charge lone parents £100 to access the service, with no guarantee that they will end up with maintenance at the end of it having invested that £100. Much better to bully women into staying with abusive men. And let's be clear: men who don't pay maintenance are abusive men, they are financial abusers and as such, prove that the women who split from them were right to do so.

And yet still, without the maintenance, women are happier than men are after divorce.

I don't buy DadtheLion's view that you should marry a feminist and if you divorce you'll be happier than the average man because you'll be held to account. I'm a feminist and I have no way of holding my ex to account. The state doesn't support me in doing that, so it's entirely his choice whether to be a good father or not, I can't do anything to influence that and the state is not interested in influencing that - its primary concern was to ensure that a) we got married and b) we stayed together. Once those 2 things are finished with, the state appears to lose interest in men's parenting.

BasilBabyEater Sat 13-Jul-13 07:52:31

God that Tim Lott article is horrifying.

It deserves a thread all to itself.

He is clearly a controlling git and his behaviour may possibly amount to financial abuse - he has the last say on where they go on holiday because he earns more money than her? Fuck, what sort of attitude is that?

kim147 Sat 13-Jul-13 07:44:30

From Gingererbread

www.gingerbread.org.uk/content/365/Statistics

The median age is 38.1
But read that and it's the money that's hard - because 21st century is an expensive place to survive and run a house and family. Maybe that should be addressed rather than trying to encourage marriage in tax breaks.

kim147 Sat 13-Jul-13 07:37:54

From what I've seen on other boards, maintenance and lack of money is a real issue. You suddenly go from running one house to 2 people running 2 houses - which is bloody difficult nowadays.

Add in the cost of a child, childcare or working part time hours and that makes life even harder. If you have an ex who can't / won't pay or only pays the CSA minimum and finances are tough.

It's really sad that single parents are demonised. I bet the majority of single parents probably are working hard in employment, don't claim many benefits and are not a drain on the taxpayer - despite the so called image portrayed in the media. With 50% of marriages ending by the time the child is 16, there are many divorced and separated parents out there.

It's also interesting to define a "single parent". How much time and support does an ex need to put in to stop a parent who's separated becoming a single parent?

People should not be villified and judged for life decisions.

rosabud Sat 13-Jul-13 06:45:21

Interesting article which is very true of many marriages. In the final paragraph, he says that "generosity of spirit" is possibly the answer. I agree, but "generosity of spirit" depends on a happy, working partnership. This "generosity of spirit" will not be available to his wife if/when they divorce and she will be considerably worse off. Having said that, his wife will, on divoce, be finally in control of her own budgeting and money (even though their will be less of it). For example, she will no longer feel that he that he is entitled to have "final say" on large purchases. And she may then feel "happier" - whereas that outcome of divorce will not have much effect on making him any happier (there is even an argument, that the loss of power will make him unhappier.)

So I think the fact that women are worse off financially after divorce, yet still happier than men, shows that marriage is not a "good" thing for women. I think power over finanacial control far outweighs arguments that Wilson was making re social aspects of divorce which, incidentally, really are generalisations.

Darkesteyes Sat 13-Jul-13 00:33:26
WilsonFrickett Sat 13-Jul-13 00:19:00

I'm Feckin roasting but will do my best...

I believe essentially tht bad marriages are bad for everyone within them, including (especially?) children.

As to why women do better out of marriages, I think the reasons are hard to unravel. Firstly not all divorced men are unhappy, clearly. We're talking about a trend. SOME men will be completely happy post-divorce. I love Dadthelion's logic that the men who divorce feminists and are therefore held to account are happy.

Marriage/coupledom isn't for everyone. But men are sold the marriage message as hard as women. Maybe they find it harder to adjust post-divorce?

And I already made the point about women holding the social threads in their hands - as part of the wifework often - but when marriages end, men do find themselves without the social network their wives nurtured.

There's also the much-quoted tenant that men who have children in the workplace are seen as successful, young and virile. Surely the reverse must be true?

And of course - and again this is a trend rather than getting into specifics - men usually have less access to their children after divorce. This is not a 'what about the menz' post. Usually if men have less access it's because they haven't put the time in/have been a shit in other ways. But not seeing your children - no matter what the cause or whether it's justified must have a significant impact on happiness.

<thinks did quite well. Finishes the wine. And says goodnight>

rosabud Sat 13-Jul-13 00:03:57

My punctuation and typing in that last post are completely embarrassing and a sign that I need to go and get some sleep!! blush

BasilBabyEater Sat 13-Jul-13 00:02:57

Also what constitutes a bad marriage.

One man's meat is another man's poison and all that.

Must really go to bed now, "see" you tomorrow.

BasilBabyEater Sat 13-Jul-13 00:01:54

I get that you believe bad marriages are bad for women WF. Do you also believe they are bad for men? In which case, why aren't they as happy as women when they divorce?

Don't answer now if you can't be arsed, I'm off to bed as have realised it's very late and apparently it's going to be 25 degrees tomorrow so beach I think. Woohoo!

Good night.

rosabud Sat 13-Jul-13 00:01:49

Financially marriage is very precarious for women, for many reasons to do with traditional stay-at-home-parenting, (women's wages often not as good as men's so they become the SAHP or the 'part-time' one etc etc.) When a marriage is happy and all things are shared equally, then this may not be a big problem, but when things go wrong, women who have been the SAHP, the 'part-time one etc etc, are hit very badly, particularly if they become single parents as well, so marraige IS financially precarious for women. therefore, I agree with Basil that marraige is not as good for women as it is for men. there are lots of other reasons too, but the financial situation is the obvious one.

Dadthelion Fri 12-Jul-13 23:55:10

I dunno.

Divorce was one of the best things that happened to me.

Me and my boy for 9 years, wall to wall Sky Tv, Cricket and pizza.

I'd recommend it, but my ex is a feminist who in no way was going to be left holding the baby on her own as it were.

I'm happy,she's happy. It can be done.

Men, marry a feminist.

WilsonFrickett Fri 12-Jul-13 23:50:50

Feck lost a big post.

I am a regular on these boards.

I don't believe marriage is bad for women.

I do believe bad marriages are bad for women.

Marriage is not inherently bad for women. Or men.

Women tend IMO to do 'better' post divorce because women tend to be the 'keeper of the social' in relationships. Just another example of how sexism hurts everyone. Women do the phoning, arranging, present buying, all the wifework. So after divorce women get the relationships.

Which Your article also refers to. Something about women divorcing 'and going out with the girls' <deep> I can't quote exactly because clicking back into your link made me lose my last post.

BasilBabyEater Fri 12-Jul-13 23:47:17

Yes that's true.

Even single parents are down on single parents. grin

I've lost count of the times when other women have told me that although she's a single parent, she's not a "typical" one - she got divorced, kids have same dad, she's working, she's whatever-it-is-that-doesn't-fit-the-negative-stereotype.

Single parents themselves buy into that crap without realising they're doing it.

Darkesteyes Fri 12-Jul-13 23:44:51

Basil another way in which they are punished is the vitriol from the media towards single parents. Not just from the DailyMail/Sun either but even a couple of the womens weeklies demonize single parents regularly.

BasilBabyEater Fri 12-Jul-13 23:43:40

Well, mass divorce is one answer Dadthelion

The other one, is to perhaps even up the scales within marriage?

Make it better for women, so that they benefit from it as much as men?

Then there would be no need for mass divorce.

Might that be an idea to run with?

BasilBabyEater Fri 12-Jul-13 23:42:14

And er, the sweeping generalisation is based on research.

Again.

This keeps happening.

Every time they do a piece of research on this subject, they find out that women are happier after divorce than men are.

Hence the sweeping generalisations.

Like, yerknow, poor people are more likely to shop in Morrisons than Waitrose. Sweeping generalisation there, based on very sound research. Mustn't make weeping generalisations though. hmm

Darkesteyes Fri 12-Jul-13 23:40:28

This thread is good timing Ive just come off a thread in Relationships where a guy has posted that perhaps he should "help" less around the house and become the carefree bloke his partner fell in love with to get more sex. I shit you not.

Basil Baby Eater i heard the same phrase in the film The Witches of Eastwick recently
In the film Jack Nicolson says "Marriage Great for the man Lousy for the woman"

But why the fuck is it made out to be the wife who curbs the mans freedom when its total crap.

Dadthelion Fri 12-Jul-13 23:40:22

What's the answer?

Mass divorce?

BasilBabyEater Fri 12-Jul-13 23:40:17

Well you know it now.

If you're a regular frequenter of this board, you will know it, because it's been mentioned several times. Nice to see it backed up by research (again) though.

smile

WilsonFrickett Fri 12-Jul-13 23:38:46

Oh thanks for pointing out there are exceptions to your sweeping generalisations hmm

Referring to what 'we' know in a thread title is teeth itchy. How can you know what I know?

rosabud Fri 12-Jul-13 23:37:50

That is a very good point Basil and quite a poignant one.

BasilBabyEater Fri 12-Jul-13 23:29:34

On average of course.

There are always the exceptions which intelligent people understand without having it spelled out, but I'll spell it out here for the benefit of the usual suspects.

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