'Cock tease'

(94 Posts)
TrickyBiscuits Sun 07-Jul-13 12:35:28

DH and I just been discussing this expression and I'm having difficulty explaining why I find it so repulsive.

My usually liberal and progressive DH has shocked me to be honest: he says that there are women who deliberately go out in skimpy outfits and act in a sexually provocative way only to later make it clear to a guy they were flirting with that sex absolutely isn't on the cards. I say they're perfectly entitled to do this, he agrees, but says in some women it's a form of deliberate manipulation, hence the derogative label being applied to them.

I think there are 2 main things which are pissing me off the most:

The phrase itself (it's actually 'virgin bitch' in his native language which I think is even worse) is so bloody dehumanizing. As if female behaviour should automatically be viewed through a penis-shaped lens.

And also, the spectrum of application is huge... where does dressing attractively and behaving in a flirty manner end (if that's even allowed hmm) and 'cock teasing' begin? it just seems to be a label to exert power.

Bloody hell I'm cross. I'm having difficulty articulating myself.

Any thoughts?

Eyesunderarock Sun 07-Jul-13 22:00:37

'They really still seemed to believe that lie that once a man is turned on, it's an unstoppable thing and you can't say no, because his balls will explode and it'll be your fault.'

That's one of the key points that both sexes need to be taught. No it isn't unstoppable, nothing will explode and sex is always a choice and never a right. That unless it is explicit that both people want sex, it shouldn't happen.

Eyesunderarock Sun 07-Jul-13 22:02:06

But yes, it is used as a justification for rape. angry

TheDoctrineOfAllan Sun 07-Jul-13 22:10:00

Tricky, no doubt there are people who set out on a night out to steal a couple of wallets, or start a punch up or whatever.

But those people are in a small minority and don't have a phrase all of their own that can then unsubtly be broadened to mean something That for some men seems as wide as "woman who won't fuck me even though I want her too"

TheDoctrineOfAllan Sun 07-Jul-13 22:12:43

Are there really a lot of women he or his friends have come across who explicitly say "I want to have sex with you" and then head off?

Or might there be some misinterpretation?

Eyesunderarock Sun 07-Jul-13 22:14:45

I doubt it Doc, he's probably meaning heavy flirting, body contact and suggestive comments which is then used to justify 'She wants to have sex'

"Anyone has the right to refuse sex, at any time, for any reason"

That seems a very powerful statement, given our society.
Should be quite simple and straight-forward, but is often over-complicated.
Fortunately it's something that has been reasonably well respected in my encounters and relationships - there are good men out there too.

Something to talk with DD about - and DS smile

TrickyBiscuits Sun 07-Jul-13 22:19:00

Eyesunderarock yes, unfortunately, that sort of thinking has been around for as long as I can remember as an adult, I would've hoped that young women would be past that thinking by now sad

TheDoctrineOfAllan it's used purposefully to undermine, denigrate, and exert power.

Eyesunderarock Sun 07-Jul-13 22:28:44

Yes Juggling, I talked about the issues with both of my children. It isn't the responsibility of only one sex, we can only change inequalities and preconceptions if both sexes are involve and aware.

TrickyBiscuits Sun 07-Jul-13 22:43:45

Sorry, I cross posted there with a few posts.

Eyes and Rock I don't know, it does seem improbable, although I can remember saying a few sexually explicitly things in my past, but would I have changed my mind if I then realised the man was a cock? Definitely!

I'm not particularly cross with DH I don't think, I don't think he sees the layers of significance though. He is one of the 'good men'; has never shown anything other than a belief in respect and equality, I think that why I'm so dumbfounded by the use of the term though confused

TheDoctrineOfAllan Sun 07-Jul-13 23:40:54

Tell him that you see him as one of the good guys, but that all it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

Tricky, you could have changed your mind for any reason or no reason, as could the man. Does your DH call you a cocktease if you snog him at 8pm but don't want sex at 10pm? I'm sure he doesn't. So why is it different?

I think, on balance, I have met more men who were into this sort of spiteful teasing to boost their own egos ie flirting with you all night then backing off, sometimes in a very rude manner. My mates and I used to label certain men 'fanny-teasers' because that's exactly what they were.

But I agree with other posters that a lot of men seem to feel that a woman's existence is 'proof' that she's available for him to have sex on, and a refusal on her part is simply wrong.

"to have sex on" hmm Urghh ! SGB

But yes, it's like the obsession with whether or not you're with anyone (a man) Like, whether or not you're already owned by someone (spoken for to put it naicely)

Bloody hell, we've got such a long way to go for respect and equality haven't we ?

Branleuse Mon 08-Jul-13 12:49:12

I think its a real thing that a lot of young immature women do when they feel confident the more sexual attention they get but they dont want to have sex. its horrid. some men do it to but obviously the connotations are different, but the whole thing is hideous.
just dont flirt with people if you dont want to get it on. its confusing

scallopsrgreat Mon 08-Jul-13 12:52:39

"some men do it to but obviously the connotations are different" Really?

What is wrong with flirting? Why should you not flirt with someone you may not want to have sex with? And how do you know these women are actually 'flirting' (whatever that may mean as it is hugely subjective) and not just have a conversation?

Like I said, I know more men who tease deliberately and spitefully. Whether it's to prove a point to their friends ('moose hunting' for example) or because they want to 'put a woman in her place' ie punish her for something by reminding her that the most important thing about her is her desirability. I'm not denying that there are some women who are spiteful as well, of course.

But flirting can either be a way of making conversation (which is only percieved by one party as flirting anyway) or it can be checking someone out and then deciding that acutally s/he is not as desirable as you thought and backing off, which is not wrong.

Anyway isn't flirting just sending out the message that you like someone and may find them attractive, and are enjoying talking with them and spending time with them ?
Anyone can see this doesn't always lead to choosing to have sex with them!
Anyone who thinks it does is an idiot surely ?

slug Mon 08-Jul-13 14:55:31

With respect to the unstoppable male sexuality meme, when my male students used to run that one by me with all due seriousness (they really seemed to believe it) I would ask them what happens if their mother walked in on them having a wank. wink

Branleuse Mon 08-Jul-13 16:15:10

flirting is acting like you may be sexually interested in someone. Its not just being chatty.
Some people just do it. Im really bad at it, and it freaks me out when people flirt with me. If someones throwing out signs that theyre interested in me, when theyre actually not, just so they can bolster their own self esteem by being able to get the attention and then reject, than thats cruel.
Cock tease/chuff tease are horrible words for it, but its an insane thing that people do, especially for people that actually feel the flirting and then rejection on a more emotional level than just thinking with whats between their legs

GoshlyoHeavens Mon 08-Jul-13 16:21:03

What's the equivilent man-wise?

Branleuse Mon 08-Jul-13 16:33:14

when i say the connotations are different, im not using the right word. I mean the whole thing is different. I think the other way round, you get married men and women doing it. Being flirty and coming on to a people to prove their sexual prowess to themselves, even though they have no intention of going through with anything.

Im usually good with social cues etc, but flirting leaves me baffled and anxious. I just dont get it

GoshlyoHeavens Mon 08-Jul-13 16:51:48

Men and women flirt, and wear things.

That seems to me different from attacking someone and forcing yourself on someone violently.

Sunrising33 Mon 08-Jul-13 16:59:05

Hum having run a bar for (too) many years I've seen some Men used shamelessly by some Women. A typical scenerio would be the Woman being overly friendly "How about buying me a drink" leading to "how about buying my friends some drinks". After drinks are "procured" then Ladies in questions will often walk off without so much of a thanks or will say something doragatory about the guy to his face. Very often guys who are alone or a bit tipsy are targeted specifically. Believe me the situations are not of someone flirting then deciding "not for me" or just a nice chat. It really is exploitative. It's Women like that who turn me on to Feminism.

GoshlyoHeavens Mon 08-Jul-13 17:11:25

Fraud is wrong, Sunrising, and vulnerability is exploited.

GoshlyoHeavens Mon 08-Jul-13 17:16:12

Shitting nora, can someone else post here too?

Sorry Goshly I had to spend time with my children blush but I'm back now. Just trying to think of a way to respond to Sunrising's point about Women. After all, s/he has observed Women exploiting nice chaps quietly minding their own business on their own in a bar, so it must be universally true that Women are cock-teases. No?

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