How can any woman NOT support the No More Page 3 campaign?!

(190 Posts)
DoctorRobert Thu 23-May-13 15:42:21

This is inspired by a thread about the No More Page 3 campaign on another forum I'm a member of. Some of the attitudes over there (all by female posters) are just depressing.

So many women who don't see a problem with Page 3 & describe it as harmless fun...the old chestnut that "there are worse things in the world to worry about" (maybe, maybe not, but I can think about more than one issue at once)...Page 3 being defended as tradition...and a complete inability to see Page 3 as part of a bigger picture of objectification and inequality. Posters denying that there even is inequality. Posters saying they would support their daughters if they wanted to topless model.

So my question is, how can any woman in 2013 think that way?

Is it normalisation? A lot of the posters also recount their parents buying the Sun and seeing Page 3 from a young age. Has objectification been so deeply ingrained into them that they just can't see why it's a problem?

Or is that it's too uncomfortable for some women to acknowledge that we don't yet have equality? Perhaps on some level they do realise there's a problem with Page 3, but facing up to that isn't an easy thing to do?

LynetteScavo Thu 23-May-13 18:54:10

I have a problem with P3.

I don't have a problem with a photo of naked breasts in a newspaper, accompanying a report, and is not something I would want censored.

How do you introduce legislation which bans one, but allows the other?

VestandKnickers Thu 23-May-13 18:57:16

OP, just because you don't understand someone's point of view does not mean it is not valid.
I am not particularly keen on page three and would not buy the Sun for many reasons, but I don't wish to ban it.
If you do wish to campaign for a ban good for you - go for it. I support your right to do so.
Maybe you could have the courtesy to allow me to have a different opinion though.

joanofarchitrave Thu 23-May-13 19:03:34

The only thing is, when Rupert Murdoch suddenly tweeted 'page 3 may be past its sellby date' or whatever he was, I suddenly saw that he'd decided what was the point of paying working class women to take their clothes off, when 30 years of soft porn 'empowerment' has persuaded women that being objectified for free in the papers is a brilliant laugh?

so I was against it until Murdoch said he was for it. i would argue up was down if he proposed otherwise tbh.

joanofarchitrave Thu 23-May-13 19:04:15

sorry i mean i was against page 3 until murds said he was against it too blush

Hullygully Thu 23-May-13 19:09:29

Because being a feminist is about having the right to make your own choices

and if that means getting them out for wank fodder

oh wait

Hullygully Thu 23-May-13 19:11:08

no one can possibly defend it that has even one insy winsy tinsy brain cell

no one

and that means anyone defending it on this thread

please feel free to take offence

Creeping Thu 23-May-13 19:11:41

The NMP3 campaign doesn't want legislation to ban naked breasts in a newspaper. It wants the editor of the sun to stop running it. It is an editorial decision to have a page 3 and it can be an editorial decision to stop having it. Like some posters suggest they wouldn't mind if it died out, that is exactly what the NMP3 campaign hopes to encourage.

WilsonFrickett Thu 23-May-13 19:17:39

I don't get the censorship argument either tbh. If you take the censorship argument to it's logical end, why not campaign for more nudity in the Sun? What about my right to see fanjos? And willies for that matter? Or topless builders? Why oh why are they censoring the labia?

That said, I want them to stop because it's the right thing to do. It is past its sell-by date.

Sausageeggbacon Thu 23-May-13 19:17:48

OP you don't like page 3. The campaign has got over 100,000 signatures (taken a long time) the rag has an estimated 7,000,000 readers. If people stopped buying it maybe breasts in the papers would die out but you have an opinion that I guess 7m people don't share. Each to there own.

I am about people exercising choice, if people want it to stop you just have to cut the readership. I wonder how many of the 100k were Sun readers and have stopped? I would take a wild guess at not many.

As to objectification I had real issues from the age of 14 until XH made it a positive for me rather than a negative. Now I miss the attention of guys as I have gotten older as I personally enjoyed feeling desired.

Because being a feminist is about having the right to make your own choices
and if that means getting them out for wank fodder
oh wait

Ha, ha Hully. Now it[s probably time to hide this thread - there's only so much I can take of femisim-is-about-the-right-to-choose, if-you-don't-like-it-don't-buy-the-paper, there-are-worse-problems-in-the-world and all the other crap arguments page 3 apologists come out with.

LynetteScavo Thu 23-May-13 20:37:00

Wanting the editor to do something is one thing....hoping it might happen when millions of people buy the paper for this very reason, is another. If the editor stopped P3, they probably wouldn't have a job anymore.

Blistory Thu 23-May-13 20:37:24

Saying that you don't mind or object to page 3 says to me that you don't mind the fact that it makes me and other woman feel incredibly uncomfortable. It disappoints me that any woman would take such a stance.

It's such a simple thing to object to but that sends out a powerful message that women are not put on this earth to be ogled by men at their leisure for the princely sum of what - 50 pence or so ?

As for that whole liberal crap of censorship - the rights of men to look at breasts does not trump the right of women to feel comfortable going about their business. In fact, I'm not so sure that there is such a right to leer at breasts.

Page 3 serves no purpose whatsoever other than to provide a cheap thrill to saddos - do you really think that the censorship argument holds any water in that context ?

Blistory Thu 23-May-13 20:41:40

hoping it might happen when millions of people buy the paper for this very reason, is another

Do you honestly think that millions of people buy it just for that reason ? If so, then there's a market to be had by just selling Page 3 on it's own so why doesn't it happen ? Perhaps because no-one would buy it because they'd be openly owning their dirty little shame and heaven forbid we make men uncomfortable about that. And if they feel embarrassed or ashamed to openly buy a Page 3 - boobs of the day sheet then that really says it all about what it really is and the effect that it has.

Smudging Thu 23-May-13 20:44:59

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DoctorRobert Thu 23-May-13 20:52:24

and the op and many others are allowed to feel that an opinion that degrades them is not a valid opinion. I wouldn't expect a black person to say racist opinions are valid. because they aren't

Thank you HullMum. Precisely.

morethanpotatoprints Thu 23-May-13 20:56:14

I think all the women who think its harmless fun and a part of British Institution should campaign to keep page 3.

After all we need to keep all those hunky mechanics happy. I can't imagine what callendar they would have instead, probably none. They wouldn't know what day it was, we can't have this grin

FFs have you nothing else to worry about, lol.

dixiethepixie Thu 23-May-13 20:58:03

Yawn

GoodbyePorkPie Thu 23-May-13 21:05:31

^^ Yes, misogyny and sexism are so bloody boring. hmm

I agree OP. I think the women who don't support page 3 at best have accepted the sexism and objectification that we see every day. At worst, they hate women.

GoodbyePorkPie Thu 23-May-13 21:06:09

Sorry, that should read 'the women who don't support the no more page 3 campaign'.

MadBusLady Thu 23-May-13 21:08:01

when people say they don't support censorship, did they draw a line at all?

I certainly draw it in a looser place than the current British establishment does, yes. Racist slurs are a good example. I don't agree with hate speech laws in principle. I'd rather know who the racists are so that I can avoid them in consumer decision making, and quite possibly directly attack them for being ignorant twats. Last thing I want is them silenced and resentful when I might be unwittingly patronising their product, and when an alternative scenario might be that I and others band together to genuinely isolate them. That is what I think should happen. I don't want the decision being taken out of my hands.

But the point is a facile one anyway, because the fact is we're not designing a society from scratch, we've got the laws we've got. I'd settle for them not getting any more repressive.

libertarianj Thu 23-May-13 21:10:57

Wow the thought police are out in force with this one!

just to add some balance to the proceedings (assuming peeps still believe in democracy?):

https://www.facebook.com/SupportPage3

www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/keep-page-3-keep-page-3-in-the-sun-newspaper

It would be interesting to see how many signatures it would receive if it was given the same amount of press coverage as the 'No more... ' campaign.

MadBusLady Thu 23-May-13 21:12:17

Yes, a Facebook group is definitely massively convincing evidence that supporting page 3 is a good thing.

MadBusLady Thu 23-May-13 21:13:00

Just seen your name <sigh> I am a liberal and in many respects probably a libertarian. Some people give libertarianism a bad name.

SarabiDog Thu 23-May-13 21:39:40

Honestly, I don't get why people choose to get so worked up about this.

It's an archaic tradition presented in a medium that is dying on its arse day by day. Print media won't even exist in 5 years time.

Does it objectify women? Sure. It's still no worse than anything you can see on any holiday beach, and it's a damn sight better than what you'll see in any town/city centre on a Saturday night. But still, it does.

But then the Diet Coke ads and Twilight objectify men. Hello and OK objectify celebrities. That's what media does. It objectifies.

I don't really give a shit whether P3 exists. I worry about channels like TLC promoting shit like Honey Boo Boo; or the news deciding 3 o'clock in the afternoon is the time I really need to know about a soldier being horrifically killed in London and showing me the CCTV footage to prove how horrific it is.

Don't buy the Sun. It really is that simple. Worry about the important things.

Creeping Thu 23-May-13 22:57:44

Honestly, I don't get why people find it so easy to accept institutionalised casual sexism and think this is not important enough to challenge.

Worrying about this doesn't stop me from worrying about other things.

The petition requests that the editor removes the page, and does not want a legal ban. It takes half a minute to sign.

If you don't like page 3 and would prefer if it didn't exist, there is really no logical argument why you shouldn't sign.

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