Did the feminists burn their bras for nothing?

(92 Posts)
debssm Thu 16-May-13 08:33:08

Majority of British women would pick being a housewife over having a career

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2324926/Majority-British-women-pick-housewife-having-career.html#ixzz2TX4wzx00

Picturepuncture Thu 16-May-13 09:45:09

Did you want us to read it and say 'oh yes, how right the DM are, feminism was pointless' ...laugh and get on with our day?

debssm Thu 16-May-13 09:45:13

Some quotes from the article.:

In a recent poll of 1,582 women aged 25 and over, all of whom were in a relationship and in full time employment, 62 per cent admitted they secretly wished to be a housewife rather than have a career.

When it comes to being financially independent, 78 per cent of the women said that they wouldn't be bothered if they had to rely on their partner for money.

Bobbie Malpass, editor of mycelebrityfashion.co.uk, said the results of the survey came as a shock.

She said: 'I am so shocked to hear the majority of women would rather be housewives that go after a career. You hear so often about how we should embrace being strong independent women; I mean Destiny’s Child sang about it enough!

'I think the most shocking statistic is how many women wouldn’t be bothered if they were financially dependent on their partner, as being a 'kept woman' isn’t something that would appeal to everyone.'

fluffymindy Thu 16-May-13 09:45:30

No debate, wtf is the point then?

(or possibly you have dug yourself a hole you cannot get out of!)

THERhubarb Thu 16-May-13 09:47:01

debssm, I'm afraid anything to do with the Daily Mail is a bit of a sore point. It's a racist, bigoted, sexist excuse for a newspaper and is generally hated by all on Mumsnet so linking to an article from the Daily Mail was never going to go down well.

In fact I'd go so far as to say that it does appear to be an attempt to gain more links for said article and generate a huge debate over it, much to the delight of the Daily Mail who have never hidden their hatred for Mumsnet.

They take pot shots at Mumsnet at every given chance. I won't click on your link because that does just give them one more click and I don't want to boost their ratings.

Can I suggest, if you truly wanted to debate the validity of an article by the DM, that you try a different parenting site?

debssm Thu 16-May-13 09:57:56

I didn't realise that. And I didn't realise that if you shared an article that you somehow are expected to have a firm view on it and then be expected to enter into a heated debate about it. I just have an open mind and was wondering what other mums thought about it.

Unacceptable Thu 16-May-13 10:02:45

THERhubarb
Sweeping statement to say 'hated by all on Mumsnet' Unfortunately I'm quite sure that's not true but think you have clearly pointed out to OP why the debate started so badly.

Debssm welcome to MN where you can chat and ask questions and get different opinions which may or may not change what you were thinking in the first place when you asked the question or more simply put debate subjects

THERhubarb Thu 16-May-13 10:04:33

debssm, now you do realise though.

For one, you posted this on the feminist board so you wanted feminist opinions but you didn't want a heated debate? Why on earth start a debate at all then?

You were also quite openly encouraging posters to click on the link you gave. So not wanting to give the DM a bit of coverage then?

You refused to answer fairly simple questions on the validity of the study you talked about.

Yup, that indicates an open mind alright.

THERhubarb Thu 16-May-13 10:08:03

Unacceptable sorry, wishful thinking on my part!

The DM is such a hateful newspaper that I would seriously question my friendship of anyone who admits to buying it. They take every opportunity to put women down and to objectify them, they are openly racist, narrow-minded, ring-wing facist loving scum.

I wouldn't even wipe my arse on their vile outpourings.

Picturepuncture Thu 16-May-13 10:18:19

You aren't expected to have a firm view- so much as A view, a starting point for discussion. Otherwise, why share it?

I'm struggling not to laugh/shout in frustration at the bit about 'destinys child singing about it enough'

That to me, is the problem with articles like this- reducing all women's thoughts, dreams and ambitions to the level of a 90s girl bands lyrics- or worse saying we don't live up to them is just so bloody demeaning.

Picturepuncture Thu 16-May-13 10:24:00

When you look at what the survey actually asked it boils down to asking 1500 working women if they secretly wished they didn't have to go to work everyday.

If you asked that question to 1500 men I expect you'd get a broadly similar result!

Especially within the context of a fashion website survey- which people are going to assume is informal/a bit jokey.

If you sat the same 1500 people down and discussed the realities fully and then asked them if they still wished that, telling them that the answers would be recorded and used to indicate societies wishes. You might get a somewhat different result.

And even if you didn't. It suggests that slightly over half of all women would quite like not to work if given the opportunity. There's no shame in that. Feminism is about equality of opportunity the opportunity to not work should be equally available to both sexes.

RootinTootin Thu 16-May-13 10:24:16

As always on here, it's shoot the messenger if you dont agree with the message.

THERhubarb Thu 16-May-13 10:29:00

No RootinTootin it's a case of don't come onto Mumsnet quoting an article from the DM, asking people to click on the link helpfully provided (thus boosting their click rate), refusing to give information about the article when asked (because doing so would prevent people from clicking on the link), not wanting to make a point of any kind and then saying they don't want a heated debate.

I think we've all explained now where the OP went wrong, so she is welcome to return to state her point and perhaps start a proper, educated debate.

Picturepuncture Thu 16-May-13 10:34:40

As always on here, it's shoot the messenger if you dont agree with the message.

Or more accurately, shoot the DM because it's message is wrong.

I've nothing against the OP, despite how rude she was to me I've tried to debate the issue with her.

debssm Thu 16-May-13 10:37:05

Well to answer your questions I put it on the feminist board because it's about feminism. I am quite pleased about this poll. I'm a stay at home Mum with a four year old which i think is a very important job but often I am made to feel like I'm a failure because I chose not to go out and get a career. You see these flashy ads and programmes on the TV of powerful women taking the world by storm and somehow because your not like that your somehow seen as less than they are. Well the poll seems to suggest that an awful lot of them would rather trade places with me. I like that. Do any other stay at home Mums feel the same?

kim147 Thu 16-May-13 10:43:45

I think a lot of people would love to stay at home or mix work and home life in a more balanced way.

Unfortunately it's not a choice available to some for financial reasons, others like the fact they're doing work and some want independent security rather than being dependant on someone.

Each to their own - I wish I was able to have the opportunity to balance work and family life but can't do it and have no one to support me.

WilsonFrickett Thu 16-May-13 10:46:18

Being a 'housewife' isn't quite the same as being a SAHM though, is it? I think tgere are an awful lot of people (men and women) who would rather loll about at home doing a bit of gentle dusting followed by their hobbies and interests. I know I would rather read my way through the library and write poetry, than bash out words for the corporate beast.

But that's not being a SAHP, which is - as you rightly identify - a job in itself.

I also think in a recession the factors which drive people to work - self esteem, social recognition etc - probably become blurred by fear of losing work and work becomes more of a 'bad guy'. But I don't have any hard evidence for that.

THERhubarb Thu 16-May-13 10:56:00

Staying at home is actually making a valuable contribution to society. You are parenting children - one of the hardest and most underrated jobs in the world.

In actual fact you are fulfilling many different careers:
Cleaner
Cook
Childminder
Teacher
Nurse

Unfortunately as kim147 rightly states, many of us now have to pay other people to take on the role of childminder whilst we find paid work but whilst still fulfilling the roles of cleaner, cook, teacher and nurse in our spare time. Not to mention mediator, counsellor, gardener, etc.

I think you'll find that even if you went out to work the criticism would still be there. You'd still get people asking if you don't miss your children, if you don't feel guilty for not being with them. They question the hours you work and why in fact you do work, when your children obviously need you at home.

As a woman, you cannot win. Pathetic rags like the Daily Mail only exacerbate this attitude and I'm sure that if you did a quick search you'd find plenty of contrasting articles which mock and deride both working women and those who choose to stay at home.

If you rely on the Daily Mail to make you feel better about your life then something has gone seriously wrong.

Unacceptable Thu 16-May-13 11:06:31

debssm
There was a famous quote by a famous person so damn famous I can't recall their name along the lines of 'nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission"

You aren't a failure because you have made a valid choice to do something that works well for you and your family

BIWI Thu 16-May-13 11:08:00

Firstly, what you are falling for is someone's interpretation of the 'research'.

Second, we don't know what the actual question was that they asked - and you can easily get the answer that you want if you ask the question in the right way

Third, we have no idea who those 1500+ women are - do they represent the national population? If not, then the results don't reflect the national population's views. They only represent the views of those women who took part. And if the survey was amongst 1500 women who choose to stay at home, then of course the answer will be to support the choice to stay at home.

I doubt many here would denigrate your choice to stay at home, debssm, but I think it's very sad that you have to look to an inferior and probably badly put together piece of survey work to validate your decision.

BIWI Thu 16-May-13 11:08:31

... oh, and I'm a market researcher by the way, so I have a little bit of insight into how these kinds of surveys work/are used

debssm Thu 16-May-13 11:12:06

I don't rely on the Daily Mail, a friend sent me the link. Nothing has gone seriously wrong in my life. I've a beautiful daughter and a good husband so in many ways I'm lucky. my daughter is in pre-school 3 mornings a week and maybe when she is in school full-time I might get a part-time job because everything is getting expensive. Anyway I liked the results of the poll.

kim147 Thu 16-May-13 11:12:26

"I think you'll find that even if you went out to work the criticism would still be there. You'd still get people asking if you don't miss your children, if you don't feel guilty for not being with them. They question the hours you work and why in fact you do work, when your children obviously need you at home. "

Which men who work don't get - but they do feel guilty at missing out. I was lucky because I when I worked full time as a teacher, I was still able to get home reasonably early to spend time with DS but there were still loads of things to do in the house. I was also lucky to have the holidays as this helped (and helps) with childcare.

I would hate to have to work so hard that I could not spend time with DS. I am sure many men feel like that - but society does not seem to expect them to feel guilty and does not tell them to feel guilty.

debssm Thu 16-May-13 11:15:48

Anyway I'll check in this evening as I've a lot to do now.

kim147 Thu 16-May-13 11:19:17

Always something to do grin
Have a nice day.

RootinTootin Thu 16-May-13 11:23:40

I personally think that the good thing about historical feminism is now that there is more choice for women and the thing that annoys me about current feminism is that they seemingly despise other women who make different choices to them. Hence the backlash at this survey.

There is never quite the same questioning of other surveys when it suits their already established prejudice. As always with extremists they only hear / see what they want to hear and everything else is somehow not relevant.

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