Game of Thrones

[FrameyMcFrame]

Apologies if you've already got sick if talking about this but I just watched the first episode of Game of Thrones, I'm a bit behind the times.
Felt alienated and uncomfortable because of the female nudity obviously aimed at the titillation of heterosexual men.
Really disappointed because I was looking forward to watching it, I like fantasy and other people had said it was good.

[FrameyMcFrame]

I also hate the way this sort of thing makes me feel like a boring sex hating prude. I like sex. I just don't like seeing exploitation and misogyny.
Rant over :(

[mrscumberbatch]

I was going to say the exact same thing, the books are totally different.

Obviously the female protaganists are still being exploited etc and still nude but it's less of a plot point.

FWIW, for a fantasy series there are many strong female characters in GOT. I really enjoyed reading all the books so far. TV show, I'll watch but I'm not really bothered.

[KirstyoffEastenders]

Stick with it, it gets a lot better

[FrameyMcFrame]

Yes, I have read that there are strong female characters with complexity. Just don't want a backdrop of gratuitous nudity.

[Trill]

That's a good link but the comment doesn't exactly fit with this thread.

[katykuns]

It's not a feminist show, but it isn't as bad as others out there... the female characters are often more powerful than the men. Brienne is an awesome character in how she deals with men who knock her because she is a female knight. I do understand the annoyance at the sex and violence, it isnt necessary in some parts. I think the scene with Joffery and the whores is simply there to make us hate him considerably more

[Trill]

I think it's a bit weird to say "just because you like it" when the opinion expressed is that someone doesn't like it. Why is it "Police" to say that I think you've said something in a weird way?

I like it. I don't think it's feminist. I don't think it's any more anti feminist than most things.

[mrscumberbatch]

Agreed Trill. It's definitely not feminist. But, nice to have some interesting female characters for a change.

[Trill]

I like that (in the books at least) the female characters are just as complex and flawed and misguided and different from each other as the male characters.

It's not like when you get a token "strong female", where any flaw in her is generalised as a flaw of women in general.

[Sunnywithshowers]

I've not watched it myself, but I've heard people describe it as 'Game of Tits' which put me off somewhat.

[Bue]

I felt just the same as you when I watched the first few episodes. DH was uncomfortable with it too. After the first one I had to text my sister (a staunch feminist and GoT diehard fan) to ask her if I really wanted to continue with this. While sadly the gratuitous boob shots don't diminish (I hate the constant girl on girl action in the brothel) the show is full of complex female characters, which makes it good enough for me. (The books are way better though.)

The weird thing is, I don't know anyone who actually enjoys the boobs. Not even the men I know watch it for that.

[FrameyMcFrame]

ok so maybe I should try again with the next episode.

I was really enjoying it up to that point.

[saycheeeeeese]

On series 3 now and there is very little boobage or sex in it so keep going. It getsrreally good :)

[SlowlorisIncognito]

I think it is hard because there is obvious depictions of violence against women, which is poorly handled, especially in the first series. The books are definately better, and I would say that very few female characters are badly treated by the author as such (maybe Lysa Tully?). I'm trying hard not to give spoilers but I hope some of the characters will suprise you.

My favourite thing about the books is actually the more subtle female characters who are still equally strong in their own way, for example Sansa and Catelyn Stark. I think there are a lot of sword weilding heroines in fantasy these days, most of which I find fairly unrelatable. Unfortunately, these are probably the characters worst treated by the show, especially Sansa. I just don't feel the showrunners "get" her character at all :(.

The books and the show are obviously set in a backdrop where women traditionally don't have much power, except in a few isolated regions and are often forced to marry against their will. Now, obviously you could say that any fiction depicting these things is anti-feminist, but I would disagree. I would say the books (mostly) show these things as wrong and they show several women rejecting these traditional choices, and being successful, relateable characters.

For the record, there are some scenes which pass the bechdel test- mostly involving Sansa and Shae, ironically, so in that sense it's not completely unfeminist.

The books are definately much better than the show, though.

[dublinrose37]

I'm a huge fan of GOT, books and tv show. I love the female characters, esp Ayra, Catelyn and Daenerys who are just as capable - sometimes more so - than their male counterparts and its just accepted as the norm. I love how when I talk to male fans on GOT forums quite often their favourite character is a female and there is no macho crap about girls fighting etc.

Obviously its set in a time where women were either treated like whores or ladies, they had no rights so you have to take that into account and yeah the tv show does overdo the sex. George RR Martin, the creator, has said he is very much of the opinion that women should be strong and I think he does that.

As the story progresses you will see the females come into their own so stick with it.

[FreyaSnow]

I found the same. I watched the first episode, which ended with someone going off to be raped, and I didn't watch any more episodes. A lot of other people are watching it and I feel I must be missing out, but I don't think I can go back to it.

[YoniTime]

I like fantasy but I also stopped watching this.
I really don't feel like I'm missing out when I skip something that is full of objectification and rape. In fact I feel like I'm doing myself a favour!

[Bue]

It's not the sexual violence I mind as much as the pointless objectification. Rape would have been a weapon in this war. At least it's believable. It's when Bron is sitting with a woman on his lap chatting with his mates and oh, just decides to undress her there and then, that I get really pissed off. Or in a sex scene where both characters are naked you are guaranteed to see 700% more female flesh than male. (I would welcome more Stark flesh of the male persuasion btw.)

I love Sansa, she starts off as a prize idiot but she is coming into her own. (I'm on series three but only the first book so I don't know yet how GRRM intended the character to develop.) "I am going to give you his head as well!"... "Or maybe he'll give me yours." Oh, snap.