Really proud of my 17 year old daughter

(193 Posts)
NicholasTeakozy Mon 25-Mar-13 14:15:21

She posted a staus on Facebook which read:-

Seen a few status' tonight that have kind of annoyed me. I don't consider myself a feminist, but with issues like this I am. Why are women's bodies over-sexualised all the time? Why can men walk around with their tops off showing off their bodies but it isn't socially acceptable for a woman to do so? Why are women deemed "disgusting" or "sluts" if they do exactly what a man does? Why is there such a taboo on our bodies but men can prance about however the fuck they wish? Nah, fuck that. Ladies, do what you like with your body (within reason). Fuck all you patriarchal cunts.

Cue two of her male friends who argued that women who dress in skimpy clothing are more likely to be harassed and sexually assaulted hmm to which she replied it's the rapists' fault, not the women. Over the course of an hour she tore all their arguments apart and made them look stupid. She really brought a smile to my face and made me swell with pride to see such passion and anger in one so young.

spottyparrot Mon 25-Mar-13 17:58:31

Chunky, the top line of your most recent post says "men can lactate" and you use this to argue equality of breasts. Male lactation is an anomaly, often caused by medication. Female lactation is normal/expected after having a baby. I don't understand why you don't see the difference. If feminists think that male and female breasts are the same, it is not surprising that many women cannot identify with feminists.

To me, feminism ought to be about treating women and men equally where there is no difference between the sexes. Eg: a man doing the exact same job as a woman with both determined to be performing equally well - they should be paid the same. Women are still underpaid relative to their male counterparts and I think time would be better spent addressing this than having silly pedantic academic arguments trying to make out that women's breasts are the same as men's when the average toddler can see that they are not.

EduCated Mon 25-Mar-13 18:02:59

It was to the few posters who commented only on her swearing.

Brain is imploding at the private parts though.

spottyparrot Mon 25-Mar-13 18:06:40

EduCated, when you went through puberty, did you not feel a natural desire to cover your breasts? I did, nothing to do with society. Just biology. Hence private.

If your breasts are not "private", would you accept a colleague tapping you on your breasts in the same way you might accept them tapping on your back if the were stood to the side of you and wanted your attention?

EduCated Mon 25-Mar-13 18:15:50

No actually. I was that awkward child who's mother chased me round with clothes grin

Anyway, how would I know whether it was a natural desire or societal norms? They're so totally ingratiated in our lives that we find it difficult to imagine anything other than our own situations as being normal.

UptoapointLordCopper Mon 25-Mar-13 18:16:59

What EduCated says.

Everyone should read Delusions of Gender. And I'm not even on commission.

EduCated Mon 25-Mar-13 18:17:27

And no, I wouldn't accept that, and I wouldn't walk topless through the town centre or get them out for a jiggle at a family party, but I can recognise the impact of societal norms on this and that in other cultures or if our own culture had developed differently, it might be something I wouldn't think twice about.

UptoapointLordCopper Mon 25-Mar-13 18:18:54

I remember thinking it was outrageous as well that I was told to "sit properly" while my brothers get to splay their legs. Fuck all that. But we did cover ourselves. Not out of modesty. Bloody mosquitoes the size of aeroplanes where I grew up.

EduCated Mon 25-Mar-13 18:21:04

Yeah, I can remember being completely baffled when my sister ran up to me horrified because I'd just done a handstand and flashed my pants to the world. They were my best Pocahontas pair.

blackcurrantjan Mon 25-Mar-13 18:21:06

I don't think the OPs daughter was saying that women should walk around with their breasts out. She was saying that women who dress in skimpy outfits are viewed in a certain way whearas as men in 'skimpy' outfits are not.

Also as a fairly young person I would condsider that amount of swearing absolutly normal especially somewhere like facebook where you are mainly addressing your own age group.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Mon 25-Mar-13 18:22:56

Spotty, can you link to your thread on unequal pay? Happy to discuss yhay

UptoapointLordCopper Mon 25-Mar-13 18:26:11

"Also as a fairly young person I would condsider that amount of swearing absolutly normal especially somewhere like facebook where you are mainly addressing your own age group."

That's put us oldies in our place! grin But I agree. smilesmile I haven't been a "fairly young person" for a while now, but I do have a fairly good memory.

DaffodilAdams Mon 25-Mar-13 18:28:02

Of course it is to do with society. Ridiculous to suggest otherwise. If you lived in a community where women regularly walked around bare-chested you wouldn't have any problems joining them. There would no reason not to. Sexualised breasts are a patriarchal social construct that is why it is unacceptable to tap you on your breasts. That is why breast feeding women are made to feel they need to be discrete or not feed at all in public. Breasts primary function are to feed infants, so why should they be private? Eating isn't a private function in any community I have heard of (willing to be proved wrong). It is only the sexualising of them that has made them "private".

DaffodilAdams Mon 25-Mar-13 18:37:30

Plus sexualised breasts are a recent phenomenon. It hasn't always been this way.

And as for the swearing I wonder whether we would be giving NT's son as hard a time for saying "fuck". Boys were certainly allowed more leeway with the language they used when I was growing up.

namechangeguy Mon 25-Mar-13 19:01:48

I said earlier that this is just a personal viewpoint, but neither of my kids swear in public, or on public forums. That goes for my son and daughter. It isn't about gender, it's about good manners, self respect and articulating your views sensibly and coherently.

From time to time we get this stuff on here - 'would we give his son such a hard time for saying 'fuck' etc. - and it's just conjecture. I would. Somebody else might not. Your values are your own.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Mon 25-Mar-13 19:02:46

Actually, I wouldn't tap a bloke on the chest to get his attention either. Surely "tapping for attention" happens more on the edges of the body (arm or shoulder) if you're reaching in to touch someone's "core" then their attention is probably firmly on you already!

UptoapointLordCopper Mon 25-Mar-13 19:03:03

"Neither of my kids swear in public". You spy on them! shock Do you bug them?

DaffodilAdams Mon 25-Mar-13 19:08:13

Good point Doctrine

I couldn't get past the "I don't consider myself a feminist" hmm

Ashoething Mon 25-Mar-13 19:11:46

I wouldn't be proud of my dd for posting something so inarticulate. I find cunt particularly horrible. There is a way to get her point across without being so crude.

namechangeguy Mon 25-Mar-13 19:15:51

Doctrine - when I am with them, obviously! grin

I walked in on my son a while back. He was playing with friends and I came home early. I entered just in time to hear 'Oh, shit!' coming out of his innocent little mouth. His face when he saw me standing there was a picture! He knows it is not acceptable. It isn't big and it isn't clever, as I reminded him.

namechangeguy Mon 25-Mar-13 19:21:20

And that was in response to LordCopper - my mistake.

EduCated Mon 25-Mar-13 19:26:22

'Seen a few status' tonight that have kind of annoyed me. I don't consider myself a feminist, but with issues like this I am. Why are women's bodies over-sexualised all the time? Why can men walk around with their tops off showing off their bodies but it isn't socially acceptable for a woman to do so? Why are women deemed "disgusting" or "sluts" if they do exactly what a man does? Why is there such a taboo on our bodies but men can prance about however the fuck they wish? Nah, stuff that. Ladies, do what you like with your body (within reason). Fluff all you patriarchal twits.'

For those whose sensibilities have been offended.

EduCated Mon 25-Mar-13 19:28:58

Damn, missed one!

UptoapointLordCopper Mon 25-Mar-13 19:56:34

namechangeguy - that was at home, hardly "public". How old is your son?

Yes EduCate, you miss one! Not the same effect, is it?

Mitchy1nge Mon 25-Mar-13 20:15:59

shame some people are more interested in how your daughter expressed herself rather than what she had to say OP

but I can't stop laughing at the Extra Private Parts and 'biology' thing grin yes, it's biology that makes us cover up in Waitrose but that we somehow heroically overcome for the beach on h

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