aibu???

(33 Posts)
justaaaarrrghghggh Fri 15-Mar-13 16:27:50

nc obv.

we are sorting out our wills. i am a sahm with small children. my dh runs his own business which is doing ok, not worth a huge amount but it has potential.

when i die, all my meagre assets will go straight to dh.

when dh dies, the accountant is proposing that all or a large proportion of our assets go into a trust, just in case i get targeted by unworthy sorts or i might want to blow it all on lottery tickets. that would mean that i'd have to get permission from the trustees to get stuff out of the trust, presumably justify and convince them that i can have it. effectively i would not have total control over my own assets.

since i don't seem to like that idea, they are also suggesting that a proportion of the estate goes into trust for our children so that i can't blow all their inheritance too.

aibu to be offended by this? i believe our estate should be treated the same regardless of who dies first. ie. it goes to the other, with no conditions or checks.

perhaps i'm missing some important point here...

justaaaarrrghghggh Sat 16-Mar-13 11:57:53

the business is such that dh is the driving force. he's got the big ideas and vision. i could not step into his shoes and the value of the business would drop. he is the business really.

and this is the worry. i would not be able to maintain that asset that is a significant proportion of our estate.

even so, putting the ownership of the business into a trust to force me to get two or three others to temper / manage my decisions is a vote of no confidence in me. dh does now see that i would get advice and take the best approach and, given that he's chosen to marry me and we have children that perhaps i can be trusted to do the best in that event, and ask the right people for advice. no-one has my and my children's interests at heart more than me.

finally, i have more insight into my dh's way of thinking than the accountant. the accountant doesn't get / understand a lot of dh's business.

i also had to remind dh that this was not the accountant's reasoning. the accountant's reasoning was:

- that i would marry a con-artist who steals everything and leaves me and kids destitute
- that i would remarry and have more kids who would leech of dh's estate.

meditrina Sat 16-Mar-13 11:57:18

OP: I'm really pleased that you've worked this out.

Fastidia: if he currently owns he business, then in the event of his death, it falls into his estate. Whether the OP has an interest in it would only be relevant if considering division of assets on divorce. There was never a suggestion she/DCs would not receive the full estate, it was a question of under what conditions.

justaaaarrrghghggh Sat 16-Mar-13 11:48:53

so we have had a long animated discussion this morning.

we have agreed to set up a trust for the kids now and contribute as and when we can so that's protected in the event either one of us or both dies. then the kids can't blow it all in one go and it's tax efficient.

no trust for me in dh's will. he does however think that i don't have as good business acumen as he does (true) and does worry that i might make a bad investment decision (also true). i pointed out that his accountant also does not have as good business acumen as him and might also make bad investment choices. i also pointed out that i can always ask the accountant for his advice but a trust would force me to ask for his approval. big difference.

dh now sees how problematic this is.

scenario: i'm in my 70's and i have to go cap in hand to the trustees to convince them to give me my own money because i want to go into some retirement home. whether or not it's a reasonable request, i would still have to ask and get them to agree.

so essentially we're on the same page and i'm relieve that dh can see my arguments. i also joked that if he wanted to put my inheritance in a trust, i could leave his inheritance to the cats' home. grin

FastidiaBlueberry Sat 16-Mar-13 10:14:58

I think the fact that the OP enables him to run "his business" means that she has a legitimate financial interest in it whether it's "his" business or not and that that financial interest is one she should be free to control in the event of his death.

meditrina Sat 16-Mar-13 08:39:30

OP: how much of the estate is his business (rather than personal) property? I was just wondering if the trust was for all his property, or if it was related to the business.

Are you familiar enough with the firm to step in almost immediately and run it?

BettyBlueBlue Sat 16-Mar-13 06:58:03

OP, just think about what you would do if the situation was the other way round. If you had more money/assets than him, and he were the sahp?

Would you think the idea of a trust fund unreasonable?

I'm no expert in inheritance law, but my instinct tells me that it's always best to put the interests and financial protection of minors first.

Imagine if you left all to your husband, and then soon after you die, he gets married, and then he dies soon afterwards. Most, if not all, your money could go straight to the new wife.

I think that's why it's so important to make wills, to stipulate for all sorts of potential scenarios.

Iteotwawki Sat 16-Mar-13 04:35:30

Sounds like you should set up a Family Trust for your house and savings. With yourselves and your children as beneficiaries.

It protects your DH from unfair litigation (you say he runs a business - if he gets sued, but has no assets in his own name then your family home is safe) and protects both of you should the other die. You should both be trustees (and have a third professional trustee - normally a solicitor) who is duty bound to act in the best interests of the family as a whole.

We have this set up (DH is a sahd) and it means that our money is used to support our children. If either of us died and the other went on to have a new family, the new family can't benefit from the Trust (although they could live in the house). It's to stop DH from squandering my hard earned on a brazen blonde gold digger, obv smile

I think think you and your dh should have said all this to the lawyer that time forgot at the time. what an absolute twat.

justaaaarrrghghggh Fri 15-Mar-13 23:07:37

first thing is to find out what dh actually thinks about this. he's very poker-faced in meetings and doesn't give much away.

we'd get a lawyer to draw up the will, just that the accountant is giving us advice on what to do tax-wise. i will definitely bear mumblechum in mind.

i think we've got to work this out between us and then decide how to proceed. i can't see dh ditching the accountant given that he really only handles dh's stuff, but we could for the purpose of the wills. i can explain that i don't feel he's got my interests at heart and as such he can't be involved in anything so personal.

anyway, thanks for talking it through with me. it really helps to 'get it out' ahem as it were...

KatieMiddleton Fri 15-Mar-13 22:52:43

Is this accountant qualified to draw up a will? Mumble's website It seems really odd not to do mirror wills if you're married and neither of you has separate dependants or liabilities. What's also odd is that the accountant thinks he would be better placed to look after your family's interests then you, the children's mother, an adult with full mental capacity. Is he quite legit?

I would ask your dh this one question "Do you think I am unable to manage our finances and act in the children's best interests?" If the answer is yes, the least of your worries is the will. If the answer is no, dump the dinosaur accountant.

FastidiaBlueberry Fri 15-Mar-13 22:45:14

Actually that's another good point - in this situation, if men are widowed they are much more likely to go on to have other children aren't they?

I would have thought anyway.

Don't know the numbers.

FastidiaBlueberry Fri 15-Mar-13 22:43:20

I think it's absolutely fair enough to want to ensure that the part of the money which is your's, will eventually go to your children and not to somebody else.

It is not reasonable to expect that to be a one way street. I would expect both partners in a normal relationship to either want to protect their children's financial interests or to trust each other equally to protect their children's financial interests. (I would prefer the former option tbh but each to his/her own.)

The way it stands, if he dies first you don't get the same financial independence as your children eventually do, whereas if he dies first he can take up with a chorus girl* and have children with her and leave your share of the money to them instead of your children.

It's basically the sauce for the goose argument isn't it?

And yes I totally agree with you. If any partner of mine thought this was a reasonable way to organise things, I would not believe him anymore to be someone who believed in me as an equal being. It would totally change my perception of him tbh.

He probably hasn't realised the full implications and as someone else said, you just need to point them out.

*Always wanted to use that stereotype, sorry. grin

justaaaarrrghghggh Fri 15-Mar-13 22:39:18

i've just got home and dh is asleep so no chance to talk about it tonight.

i've been seething about it all day but want to approach it calmly.

it's dh's accountant who he's had long before i even came on the scene, and we've been together for quite some time.

anyway, accountant has seriously pissed me off. problem is my dh thinks the sun shines out his arse, and tbf he is really good at his job. i don't feel that he has my best interests at heart any more tho, only my dh's and my dh wants him to be a trustee to this charming trust fund.

plus i've just fired the last lawyer who drew up a will for us on pretty much the same grounds. blush

the thing that annoys me the most (well this evening anyway, tomorrow i'm sure i'll think of something else) is that dh is much more likely to have more children than me. i have terrible pg's and there is no way i want more children. my sanity couldn't handle it. whereas for dh, he could just go and shag someone else and job done! bingo, another child that 'our his estate' will have to support.

just so blatantly unfair.

i can't escape the feeling that because i have no earning power at the moment, i don't have a voice. it's just WRONG WRONG WRONG.

i do have to stick up for dh though - even though i haven't had a chance to talk to him about it i'd be shocked if he still thought it was a good idea after i've finished with him we've talked it through.

AmandaPayneNeedsaHoliday Fri 15-Mar-13 22:16:26

His will because only one of them can be the first to die! Either the husband or the OPs will will be the one 'triggered'. Even if what the will is actually bequething is 50% of the couple's assets because everything is in joint names.

I would ask to change accountants. If my husband wanted to do this, it would make me seriously question our marriage - so I'm hoping yours is on side!

rosabud Fri 15-Mar-13 21:41:52

I don't understand why it's his will? Isn't everything - your house, money etc in both your names?

AuntLucyInPeru Fri 15-Mar-13 19:43:11

We are both SE and both agreed to put the assets of the deceased in trust if one pre/deceased the other, but for tax reasons rather than relationship/trust reasons. There is absolute parity in out wills (but I chose a better selection of music than him for the wake grin).

Hope you work it out. IME men suggest stuff like this for dickhead reasons, and are happy to reconsider when the underlying twattish-ness is pointed put to them. Hope that's so in your case...

KatieMiddleton Fri 15-Mar-13 19:37:27

Gosh how horrible sad

Unless you are of diminished mental capacity I cannot see why this would be a good idea.

Take your business elsewhere. Get mumblechum to do your will. She did mine and was brilliant.

JourneyThroughLife Fri 15-Mar-13 19:36:44

YANBU. This is dreadful, it should be the same for both of you, and you should be able to decide what you do with the estate yourself, not be dictated to by the terms of some Trust Fund....

PromQueenWithin Fri 15-Mar-13 19:32:35

i've got to think about what to say / do, if anything, if he decides that it IS an appropriate way to treat me if he dies. it will seriously dent my faith in our marriage

sad I hope your dh sees the issues and supports you on this.

justaaaarrrghghggh Fri 15-Mar-13 19:15:20

glad that i'm not going insane...

should we both die we would put part of the estate in trust for the kids, to be dissolved once they're old enough. they would also get a lump sum on our death. so the trust would be if they blew it all, or maybe just a safety check to make sure they don't go off the rails.

but for me - well there would be a trust my entire life! so in fact i've not even accorded the same status / respect as our kids!

i haven't had a chance to talk to dh about this.

ultimately it's his decision as it's his will.

but i won't have such treatment of him in my will should i die. i just don't think it's how a responsible ADULT should be treated.

i've got to think about what to say / do, if anything, if he decides that it IS an appropriate way to treat me if he dies. it will seriously dent my faith in our marriage sad

Yama Fri 15-Mar-13 18:43:15

YANBU

I would not tolerate even listening to such guff. Neither would my dh. Jesus Christ.

meditrina Fri 15-Mar-13 18:38:46

Maybe he's expecting to die first? (OP is Not Allowed to hasten this before the will is drawn up).

rosabud Fri 15-Mar-13 18:36:53

^yes, Stella. that would be an argument - to make sure any other children i had didn't benefit from dh's assets.
^

This is wrong! The implication is that if you died but dh had more children, it would be all right for new children to benefit because it was all dh's money in th first place. Wrong! The money/assests do not beong to dh just because he is out working and you are home bringing up children. You are a family so the money/assests belong to both of you. If you were not around or you were out working now, then dh's current money would go to pay for a childminder/house-cleaner etc all the other things you now do as a SAHM. Currently you are providing that service so the money which he gets as a result of his job is half yours. Therefore, if the money is as much yours as it is his, then any of your future children have as much right to benefit from said money as any of his future children do!

Should the worst happen and he dies one day and, eventually, you do decide to re-marry and have more children depending on whether or not you can afford to do so, then you have as much right to be able to make such a decision, based on your financial situation, as dh does. You are working just as hard to earn the current family finances as he is- it is not "his" money!

SherbetDibDab Fri 15-Mar-13 18:20:22

When dh's dad was widow(er)ed he was very sad, married again in haste, and blew the families money two years later on a costly divorce.

So yanbu, the clause is insulting applied to only you, it should be applied to both of you. We have named it the Susan Clause, after the ex wife.

I think you need to get rid of the dinosaur and employ a solicitor.

PromQueenWithin Fri 15-Mar-13 18:03:00

IME you're on to a loser, he probably won't change his opinion sad.

If you can bear the constant battle for your views to be taken seriously and to be treated as equal, then you're a more patient woman that I! I'd change accountants, and let the firm know why.

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