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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Women in sexless marriages (at husbands instigation) ARE judged. And heres the proof.

45 replies

Darkesteyes · 19/02/2013 20:51

There is an article in the Independent today about an extra marital dating website. Ashley Madison.
The journalist who has written the article (Samuel Muston) interviwed two women for the article one of whom is called "Mary" and her husband no longer wants to sleep with her.
And another woman called Cindy.

THIS is what has made my piss really boil. He ends the article with.....

"Morally nether see what they do as problematic." Both simply want sex on their terms"
WTF Marys husband does not want to be physical with her any more. How the fuck is this "on her terms" Is she suppossed to put up and shut up? Simply because she happens to wear a bra.
Is she supposed to never have it again just because he decides he doesnt want it anymore.
So Samuel "Morally neither see what they do as problematic"

Morally does Marys husband see ignoring her needs as problematic? I have a nasty feeling we all know the answer to that one dont we.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/online-dating-seeking-love-on-the-side-8500181.html

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Darkesteyes · 19/02/2013 20:53

Because Samuel Muston the journalist who wrote the piece obviously doesnt see the husband ignoring Marys needs as problematic.
Mysogyny personified!

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McBalls · 19/02/2013 20:57

I don't read it that way.

The wanting "sex on their terms" IMO refers to no-strings sex as opposed to a great love story worth ending the marriage for.

I don't think it means their terms as opposed the terms set by the sex-withholding husbands.

Bue · 19/02/2013 21:16

What McBalls said. Perhaps it was worded slightly clumsily? But I didn't detect any judgement in the article.

Pan · 19/02/2013 21:42

I don't see the 'here's the proof' bit at all. It reads like a bit of a media shit-stick - no research, no profile, no corroborative evidence , just v 'readable' for some people who may be a bit bored at lunch time. Doesn't show any intelligence to be able to provide a 'judgement'. Other than "hey, sex can be quick and cheap!".
Well, what do you know new?

ecclesvet · 19/02/2013 22:23

OP, if the genders were reversed, would you detect sexism if a woman was "ignoring his needs"?

Darkesteyes · 19/02/2013 22:38

No ecclesvet If it was going on for a long time and the withholding partner was refusing to seek help by going to counselling and also refusing to "allow" their partner to go elsewhere it would be emotional abuse WHATEVER way around the genders are.
The sexism is coming from society in general.
Womens needs arent seen as important as mens.
Marys husband did not take part in the article. She is having to keep her affairs secret so therefore he is acting unreasonably.
The telling aspect of this is the fact that none of this occured to the journalist who wrote the article.

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Darkesteyes · 19/02/2013 22:41

If she is having to keep it a secret then he must be refusing to let her go elsewhere. When a partner refuses that as well as refusing to sort out the problem via counselling and it goes on for months or years that is controlling and abusive.

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Pan · 19/02/2013 22:42

"Marys husband did not take part in the article. She is having to keep her affairs secret so therefore he is acting unreasonably."

Rarely have i read that level of nonsense, sorry.

Darkesteyes · 19/02/2013 22:48

So Pan are you saying that refusing to sort out the problem and refusing to "allow" your partner to go elsewhere is NOT controlling.

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Pan · 19/02/2013 22:58

erm...well, that would be a v delicate conversation to be had between a couple. But nowhere in that article does "Mary" allude to that conversation taking place?

TeiTetua · 19/02/2013 23:02

Truly I do believe that is the roles were reversed, there'd be people here saying that the husband must have been awful in some way and it's his fault his wife won't have sex with him any more. And if he responds by looking for sex elsewhere, it just shows even more his true awfulness.

Not that I'm saying the wife here is awful, even if she's going behind the man's back. Either way around, they have a problem and they ought to deal with it.

"Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."

Pan · 19/02/2013 23:04

I'd think a simple 'gender switch' is way too simplistic, to analyse. Things aren't simply a reverse of the coin, imo.

McBalls · 19/02/2013 23:10

Darkest eyes - I have been in a long term relationship in which my Dp rarely wanted sex (he's male, I'm female) and I am and was acutely aware of the way we both may have been judged about that. Him because men are supposed to be horny, sex-oriented and virile and me because (at least this was how I felt) surely I must have been so hideous that I caused a man to lose his sex drive.

I would never have approached him and to discuss the possibility of having sex elsewhere, though a few more years with next to no sex and I may well have looked elsewhere without his knowledge. I would never have asked him as he couldn't have won - had he said go for it I'd have probably felt even more worthless.

Nobody has the right to have sex with another person when that person doesn't want it. What we do have is the right to leave if the relationship doesn't meet our needs. I'm not even going to condemn the women in the article but to say their affairs are a result of the husbands unreasonableness is ridiculous.

Anyway, I thought your issue with the article hinged on the 'sex on their own terms' comment? As I've said already, I think you've misinterpreted that.

Darkesteyes · 19/02/2013 23:15

Of course no one has the right to have sex with another person when they dont want it.
And we do have the right to leave if the relationship doesnt meet our needs.

But i often ask myself why does the person who doesnt want to be physical anymore not leave the relationship.

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McBalls · 19/02/2013 23:15

Because there's a hell of a lot more to human relationships than fucking.

McBalls · 19/02/2013 23:17

And if it suits a persons sex drive to have sex a few times a year and that's what they're having...why would they leave?

It's the person not getting what they want that would be unhappy with the situation. I was unhappy and unfulfilled, I left. He completely understood but would have happily continued.

Pan · 19/02/2013 23:20

yes, McBalls, I'd been in a loving but sexless relationship for years (I'm male, she was female), and the notion of me 'going off' to have sex with someone else would have made me feel really, emotionally poor. It's a matter of love and attachment to an individual.

re the article, fwiw, Mary saying "I makes me feel young"...well..that's a sort of indictment about where she is, wishing to 'be young'..but that isn't a judgement on her husband, I don't think.

Darkesteyes · 19/02/2013 23:26

Hmm In my case there has been no sex OR affection for 17 years. DHs choice. Mcballs its not just the sexual act. When that goes the intimacy and affection that surrounds it goes too. So im not just talking about "fucking" at all.

www.ign.com/blogs/militaryveterangamer/2012/12/18/power-in-relationships-and-its-uses/

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Darkesteyes · 19/02/2013 23:27

From the link.

Another abuse of power is withholding affection or physical gratification. This tactic is used to force a person to stop undesirable tendencies (often things that originally attracted them to the person) and then force the person to change into something else (which they are probably incapable of becoming or worse, attraction for the person fades after they successfully change them).

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Darkesteyes · 19/02/2013 23:29

well as the partner?s friends and family.

Sexual Abuse

Sexual abuse is any forced or coerced sexual act or behavior motivated to acquire power and control over the partner. It is not only forced sexual contact but also contact that demeans or humiliates the partner and instigates feelings of shame or vulnerability ? particularly in regards to the body, sexual performance or sexuality.

Common examples are:
?Unwanted touching
?Demeaning remarks about the partner?s body or appearance
?Minimization of the partner?s sexual needs
?Berating the partner about his sexual history
?Demeaning remarks about the partner being too femme or butch
?Forcing sex or sexual actions on the partner without consent
?Using force or roughness that is not consensual, including forced sex (rape)
?Rape with an object
?Refusing to comply with the partner?s request for safe sex
?Coercing the partner into sex with others
?Purposefully and repeatedly crossing the partner?s sexual boundaries
?Violating an agreement for monogamy by having sex with others
?Exposing the partner to sexually transmitted diseases
?Treating the partner as a sex object
?Criticizing sexual performance or desirability
?Withholding sex as a punishment
?Unwanted sadistic sexual acts

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Pan · 19/02/2013 23:30

You may be right Darkesteyes, but your OP link was a very bad example, imo.

Darkesteyes · 19/02/2013 23:41

Sorry i prob worded it wrong I typed my OP in a hurry while cooking at the same time. Sorry if ive upset anyone. Was not my intention to do so.

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McBalls · 19/02/2013 23:45

Darkest eyes- I, for one, need absolutely no convincing how corrosive it can be when the person you love doesn't want to have sex with you. It hurts and it's damaging and I still have to wade through the effects several years after leaving the relationship.

I just don't see what you're seeing in relation to this article.

McBalls · 19/02/2013 23:48

I don't think you've upset anyone and its definitely a discussion worth having.

There seems to be a particular kind of shame when it's the male partner withholding/not wanting sex. Whether that's real or just another level of my own feelings about it, I don't know.

I'm sorry you are going through something similar.

Darkesteyes · 19/02/2013 23:49

one of the women in the article Mary has a husband who has checked out of their physical relationship.
I just thought the journo gave her a bit of a hard time towards the end of the article. Either that or he worded it badly.

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