So in the wake of a massive public spotlight on rape, the priority apparently is to protect the reputations of the tiny % of men falsely accused of rape

(340 Posts)
FastidiaBlueberry Sun 17-Feb-13 00:18:58

FFS FFS FFS

Is it very cynical of me to think that this new demand to enable anonymity for men accused of rape (most of whom are guilty, but get off anyway) is a psychological need to re-establish what is most important to these woman-haters?

Stop talking about the mountain of rape victims who never get justice and FGS start talking about the anthill of men who get falsely accused.

Enough of Steubenville, Delhi, Frances Andrade, Jimmy Savile's victims, the 1 in 4 women who are raped or sexually assaulted.

Let's get back to talking about the really important issues - the miniscule number of men who will be falsely accused of rape or who will be the victim of mistaken identity. Fools, don't you know they're more important than all those rape vicitms? That that's a much bigger issue? So what 25% of women are subjected to rape or sexual assault? So what if 85-90% of rape victims don't report? So what that of those who do, only 6% get a guilty verdict even though only between 2-6% are lying or mistaken? Let's get some perspective on this - men matter more than women, stop imagining they don't.

Fuming but off to bed.

FastidiaBlueberry Sun 17-Feb-13 11:58:08

"Every woman who falsely cries rape puts every other woman in danger. Because they are then at the risk of not being believed. The women who falsely cry rape set any femminist cause back a millionfold."

Bullshit. Another rape myth. Why aren't you saying that about men who lie about being burgled, or having their car stolen?

Laradaclara Sun 17-Feb-13 11:58:28

Shame and victim blaming was the major reason my friend did not report sad

FastidiaBlueberry Sun 17-Feb-13 12:01:00

Masses of rape victims confirm that the reason they don't report is because they know they won't be believed.

That's not because a tiny percentage of women falsely allege rape. It's because of the disproportionate focus on that tiny percentage in all discourse about rape.

No-one's afraid to report their car being stolen or their house being burgled, because public discourse doesn't disproportionately focus on those arseholes who make false allegations about those crimes.

And yet they are just as likely to be lying, as the average rape victim.

SigmundFraude Sun 17-Feb-13 12:01:31

'It wasn't women who murdered him - it was other men.'

And yet we live in a 'rape culture' where men think it's ok for other men to rape? Men killing other men for 'allegedly' raping is surely at odds with that, no?

This graph says it all for me. It's based on US stats but the picture is similar here.

FastidiaBlueberry Sun 17-Feb-13 12:02:20

And again, what comes out in force is the horror that an innocent man might be falsely accused (he's more likely to be raped by another man) and no horror about the horrifically high level of sexual violence men inflict on women.

Priorities.

But surely because of the disproportionate focus on false allegations they do have a profound effect? Or is it chicken and egg? Or have I misunderstood?

Start addressing the problem of male violence and you start addressing the problem of vigilantism. For that matter, start giving women justice for rape and yobbos like this won't feel that the only way to get justice, is by going in for horrific violence in the first place.

This is a really good point.

FastidiaBlueberry Sun 17-Feb-13 12:03:56

No SF it isn't.

It's not difficult to grasp unless you're quite hard of thinking.

Feeling indignant and outraged by another man raping someone you care about, doesn't conflict with having a generally indifferent attitude to other women in the world being raped.

FastidiaBlueberry Sun 17-Feb-13 12:06:39

Thejoyfulpuddlejumper I don''t think that was a waste of a post. I think it's good to air your thoughts around it and throw things out there to get feedback. smile

Zavi Sun 17-Feb-13 12:12:17

I imagine that the are fewer women who falsely cry rape than there are men who are wrongly found guilty of rape.

Therefore if the justice system wants to err on the side of caution (treat people as innocent until proven guilty) then it should offer more protection to women who accuse men of rape.

What I really, really fail to understand is why information about a man's previous convictions or charges are not allowed to be disclosed to the jury but in the same trial that anything and everything that could be brought up about the woman's background is considered to be relevant.

That strikes me as so unjust. If a woman's character has to be dragged through the mud then the mans should be too. Lets at least level the playing field.

It strikes me that any woman who accuses a man of rape has to go through a process of proving that she is not making a false accusation.

I despair when I hear about women, such as lara's friend who can not bear to bring a rape incident to the policy's attention because of the trauma it, and any subsequent trial, would put her through.

SigmundFraude Sun 17-Feb-13 12:13:11

Whatever Fastidia. You stick to your narrative. False accusations do huge damage, deny all you like. You hinder more than you help. One day you might understand that, but I won't hold my breath.

FastidiaBlueberry Sun 17-Feb-13 12:23:10

False allegations don't cause anywhere near the amount of havoc real rapes cause SF.

25% of women are raped or sexually assaulted.

85-90% don't report.

Of all reported rapes, only between 2-6% are false allegations. Of that tiny number of false allegations, half of them are not "false" they are either cases of mistaken identity or women who say they have been raped but don't name an alleged rapist.

But you carry on thinking that it's a bigger issue than a quarter of all women being raped or sexually assaulted. Because of course it is, it affects men and their lives are so much more valuable than those of women, aren't they?

I don't think Sigmunde is saying that at all. But I do think that false allegations can have a huge effect because they are so focused on. So they are still an issue aren't they?

MechanicalTheatre Sun 17-Feb-13 12:29:16

Plenty that is really useful, thanks.

I am very sick of this discussion always coming back to false accusations.

FastidiaBlueberry Sun 17-Feb-13 12:37:59

No more than for any other crime joyfulpuddlejumper.

There will always be people who report crimes that don't exist, until we live in a perfect society. Just as there will always be people who fiddle their taxes, or the benefit system or whatever.

The question is how much of the public discussion should focus on that tiny percentage of dishonest people, versus the much bigger percentage of honest ones.

The other day there was a story in the news about a bunch of fraudsters who were responsible for a woman dying in a car-crash because they wanted to collect the car insurance that would be paid out by causing a road traffic collision.

Should we start treating every single motorist in a traffic collision, as if they are fraudsters who engineered the collision deliberately to collect on the insurance?

Would that be a reasonable, proportionate response to the undoubtedly serious problem of people who do this?

I don't think it would be. We all know it happens, we know it's a problem, but we also know that it is a tiny problem compared to the number of road traffic collisions that were genuinely unintentional. But why don't we just focus on it while ignoring the huge number of genuine traffic accidents? Because we're not mad for a start and because we don't think that motorists are a particularly dishonest and untrustworthy category of human beings. While women who say they have been raped, are.

Oh I'm not saying that the false allegations should be focused on - as you say, they are a tiny proportion of all reports. What I'm saying is that because they are so focused on they are relevant and have to be discussed, if only to dismiss them.

(Sorry if that doesn't make much sense, very tired today).

FastidiaBlueberry Sun 17-Feb-13 12:56:45

No I get what you're saying, it's just that we have to focus on them all the time to refute them as a major issue IYSWIM.

vesuvia Sun 17-Feb-13 13:11:04

SigmundFraude wrote - "Why don't you, just for once, discuss the women who falsely report rape?"

Do you want us to discuss only the women who make false accusations of rape, or also the men who make false accusations of rape?

FastidiaBlueberry Sun 17-Feb-13 13:13:21

He certainly doesn't want us to discuss the men who lie about having raped does he

YNK Sun 17-Feb-13 13:25:08

Women are (rightly) jailed for making false accusations of rape. However some of these cases have raised concern that some have been jailed wrongfully. Where is the outcry about this?
Imagine coming forward with an allegation and all this entails only for the law to turn against you!

FastidiaBlueberry Sun 17-Feb-13 13:26:43

Yep.

Gail Sherwood was raped and jailed for daring to complain about it.

Society is using the "false allegation" thing to get us to STFU about men raping us.

Zavi Sun 17-Feb-13 13:30:17

Exactly, fastidia

The amount of attention it gets is disproportionate to its incidence.

It is a smoke screen.

Zavi Sun 17-Feb-13 13:31:00

I don't mean that in a conspiracy sort of way I mean in a way of creating an obstacle to the real issue

MechanicalTheatre Sun 17-Feb-13 13:31:09

I have, thankfully, never been raped. I have been sexually assaulted more times than I can count and always been told to STFU about it. When I was younger and going out a lot, I'd be groped every single time and when I went to complain to security or screamed at the guy who'd done it, my friends would always drag me away, tell me to calm down, tell me it was no big deal.

This is the culture we are living in, where a man can grab your arse if he wants to and you just have to put up with it, or even be flattered by it.

SigmundFraude Sun 17-Feb-13 13:33:39

She. I am a woman.

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