a question for the men here

(1000 Posts)
Mitchy1nge Tue 29-Jan-13 01:01:05

what makes you think you have anything of real value to bring to discussions about women's experiences and expectations?

obviously some men can make interesting contributions (although those sorts of men don't often announce themselves here) to some discussions but generally, on the whole, everything everywhere else is already pretty saturated in Male Voice so was just wondering where you got the idea from

AnyFucker Tue 29-Jan-13 18:51:41

The derailed threads that go on and on until 1000 posts prove my point. The men that turn up purely to derail have no ethos of compromise, because they choose their threads very carefully so that there can be no middle ground, and they know it.

SweetLilyTea Tue 29-Jan-13 18:53:09

StewieGriffinsMom Tue 29-Jan-13 11:57:37
I think its fairly obvious which men post here with the expectation of learning and participating in a discussion and those who are here to silence.

It sure is.

I'm embarrassed to name names, but I like posters like NicholasTeakozy. He's clearly not here to antagonise and doesn't tell feminists how to think, or what to feel. Just joins in discussions in a really genuine way.

Leithlurker Tue 29-Jan-13 18:58:54

Having read a lot of your stuff AF on many threads on diffrent boards on MN, I know that you have strong views and hold your experiences to be that of very many women. I certainly cannot imagine anyone man or woman being able to tell you anything, we can though engage in conversation which may lead to agreement or may not, that is not naive thats how people have debated and communicated for many a century.

Using your razor sharp sarcasm though shuts down any attempt at people being able to express anything other that your own views back to you. So how will you change things from the patriarchy in to anything else if you do not allow others to talk and insist that they are naive?

TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub Tue 29-Jan-13 18:59:57

There are buckets of threads on MN that run to 50-200 posts - it's pretty uncommon to fill threads unless there has been something of a bunfight.

LineRunner Tue 29-Jan-13 19:01:18

I suppose the thread's not about AnyFucker, though.

AnyFucker Tue 29-Jan-13 19:03:12

How helpful of you to make it personal LL. I was talking about general styles, you swing it around to me in particular. That was pretty efficient at shutting down our dialogue, wasn't it ?

mcmooncup Tue 29-Jan-13 19:03:18

I avoid here a little now since we became over run with the MRA's/punters. But I agree with those saying that you can tell the genuine men who post from those that are so frightened to listen to and learn about what feminists say because it might mean a change for them so then the only option is to derail. I find them utterly disrespectful to this forum.

Even DadDancer still harping on about how feminists should support lap dancing on this thread and how objectification is something just made up by, wel by who I don't know and with what motive there would be to make it up, I don't know either.....simply tiresome. Completely unable to comprehend an alternative view. Refusing to even think through the debate. Yawntastic.

mcmooncup Tue 29-Jan-13 19:06:38

"Using your razor sharp sarcasm though shuts down any attempt at people being able to express anything other that your own views back to you."

I suspect what you actually mean by this is that you generally don't have an answer and that makes you feel all emasculated.

OneMoreChap Tue 29-Jan-13 19:12:27

I'd have thought Anyfucker's sarcasm can be of the clunking fist variety, on occasion, tbh grin.

Was the point of the OPs thread to start a bunfight?
I thought not.

AnyFucker Tue 29-Jan-13 19:15:44

I don't think the point of OP's thread was to talk about one poster in particular either.

Moooove it along, folks smile

Daddelion Tue 29-Jan-13 19:25:02

I've posted in the Feminism section before because this is a parenting forum.
I wouldn't post on a Feminism forum.

BelaLugosisShed Tue 29-Jan-13 19:28:03

Oooh, Larrygrylls and daddancer on this thread complaining, who'd have thunk it? hmm

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Tue 29-Jan-13 19:30:56

I've found the punter/MRA invasion rather boring too - I've no objection to men posting here, per se, but when they bring a sex industry-related agenda here it's just soooo obvious.

Funnily enough, when feminists discuss whether they are for/against the sex industry, I always find the debate really interesting and informative. But, somehow, a punter joining up to post "I'm punt and I love it, you're all jealous" / "my wife and I love LDCs" / informing us (without invitation) how his wife has a 'hollywood' just really makes my skin crawl.

Probably because I'm married to really nice bloke, who would look at me like hmm or shock if I told him that men actually sign up to MN to discuss shaving their pubic hair / lap dancing clubs etc on the MN Feminist section... (he has better things to do).

There is a website that instructs MRA's how to register and troll this section - I always have that in mind tbh.

AbigailAdams Tue 29-Jan-13 19:34:03

I agree with SGM. It must be hard for some men, though, to accept that women have formed their opinions through their own experiences and observations and through listening to other women, without any deference to men. It is an erosion of male privilege, I grant you, that the world could be viewed through female eyes, rather than male.

Leithlurker Tue 29-Jan-13 19:36:48

I apologise if you felt I was aiming at you in particular I used your example as from the public information shared by you I expect you would not suffer fools at all never mind gladly AF. My point was to say that using experience can be a double edged sword. For example your point about coming here and telling radomes that lap dancing has no harm to it is certainly not what RadFems want to hear. That though is not the point of MN, people have and express different points of view, no group should be entitled to feel that this forum is their own space. unless they physically control it or have the legal ability to ban people.

Again I apologise for making this seem to be about you, it was not my intention.

StewieGriffinsMom Tue 29-Jan-13 19:38:52

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MiniTheMinx Tue 29-Jan-13 19:52:06

Doesn't really bother me, I agree with Leith, if we don't engage in discussion how are things going to change. But then I don't think all men are entitled sexist knobs. I don't think all men as a class set out to oppress all women. What I do think is that over our entire history there has been a division of labour which has devalued women's contributions, a division btw public and private space which leads to women's subjugation. There are plenty of women who are not conscious of oppression just as there are very many men are not conscious of the ways in which they are privileged. Without getting men on board I can't quite see how we can change society.

TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub Tue 29-Jan-13 19:58:02

I really don't see what is passive aggressive or bullying about the post you quote, LL.

AnyFucker Tue 29-Jan-13 20:02:33

Apology accepted, LL.

Lessthanaballpark Tue 29-Jan-13 20:22:24

I like having men on FWR. Why not? Men can be feminists too. Sure there are a certain few that come on here with entrenched views, unwilling to debate but to patronise and tell you that Feminism isn't needed, but let's face it those people aren't limited to just men.

AnyFucker Tue 29-Jan-13 20:24:47

To be fair, Lessthan, the women who act in that way get short shrift too

Pan Tue 29-Jan-13 20:54:39

I used to post a lot here as I have spent a long time in RL engaged in actions, reading and debate over womens rights, and especially on the 'womens rights/equalism' Venn Diagram intersection. I also have a dd teenager (who happily puts me right when I am wrong). Deep joy.smile
Like regular posters here identifying derailers and trolls, there's the 'territorials' who react poorly, so I hardly ever post.
Not sure why the thread was started, but I imagine there's a big shiny button being polished.grin

Mitchy1nge Tue 29-Jan-13 21:34:14

actually, grumpy/goady whatever tone of op aside, I am quite interested in the replies. It's not a sort of Inglourious Basterds style plot to get all the men on one thread and then set fire to them.

I think I only know one male MNer from real life who has posted (not contentiously) in this section. Not that I know, I hope, any of the obviously perverse posters - female or male.

DadDancer Tue 29-Jan-13 23:28:17

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

LineRunner Tue 29-Jan-13 23:34:12

I think it's great to talk to men on here who are feminists, and who give a crap about their daughters and sons in this world of ours.

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