a question for the men here

(1000 Posts)
Mitchy1nge Tue 29-Jan-13 01:01:05

what makes you think you have anything of real value to bring to discussions about women's experiences and expectations?

obviously some men can make interesting contributions (although those sorts of men don't often announce themselves here) to some discussions but generally, on the whole, everything everywhere else is already pretty saturated in Male Voice so was just wondering where you got the idea from

namechangeguy Tue 29-Jan-13 09:51:08

What brought me here was having a 16 year old daughter, and wanting to understand the issues and obstacles she may face in future years. That and an interest in politics.

I don't post any more though. There is no point. I just read the threads.

RumbleGreen Tue 29-Jan-13 10:29:14

I only really post if it's related to men in some way so my views are valid or if I am posting something factual, otherwise I don't partically care all that much.

Snorbs Tue 29-Jan-13 10:47:40

Much what namechangeguy says. I have a daughter. That simple fact has opened my eyes to the scale of sexism in a way that I simply had not been aware of before. Much to my regret.

I'd always been interested in and supportive of anti-sexism in much the same way as I've been supportive of efforts to stamp out racism and anti-homosexual prejudice as well. I remember the emergence of Political Correctness in the 80s and I heartily approve of it. But it's only by seeing the world through my daughter's eyes that have brought home just how much a patriarchal society distorts expectations and assumptions.

As for what makes me think I have a right to contribute, I have previously been told in here that male opinions were welcome. If you're saying that has changed then fair enough but forgive me if I'd want to hear that from Mumsnet itself rather than the opinion of a single poster.

MMMarmite Tue 29-Jan-13 11:28:54

Not a man, but... Do people have to "bring real value" to post here? I don't think most people come here thinking "I know so much about this topic, I can improve the level of discussion on this forum"... they mostly come here to learn, to compare ideas and experiences, to talk things through.

I like that some men spend their time learning about feminism; making their own "male voice" less sexist, more educated, more aware. Obviously it's not good if they are dominating the discussions here or being hurtful, but I hate the way men are chased away from this section.

StewieGriffinsMom Tue 29-Jan-13 11:57:37

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dublinrose37 Tue 29-Jan-13 12:12:21

I welcome men's input into feminist discussions, they may not be women but as the posters above have said they have daughters, partners, sisters, female friends etc. Its good to hear a male viewpoint on something too, a bit of input from someone on the outside can bring clarity. The more men educated about the type of casual sexism that exists out there the more likelyhood of it being stamped out which can only be a good thing.

NormaStanleyFletcher Tue 29-Jan-13 13:20:35

I welcome men who are here to learn and participate without telling me/us how feminism should be done.

AmandaPayne Tue 29-Jan-13 13:31:31

I agree. MN is a mainly female space, so I have nothing against the fact that it is mostly women on this board. And there can be a place for a women only space. However, I think men can add an interesting perspective and I think it's a shame if they think they do not have a right to contribute.

What matters is intelligent contribution. Contribution which recognises that they come from the favoured sex. Contribution that isn't telling women they've got it wrong about sexism or bleating 'what about the menz'. But I find those latter sorts of contribution annoying from women too.

Leithlurker Tue 29-Jan-13 14:59:17

I lurk mostly as dissent seems to be jumped on and called silencing, or apologising, or in one recent example being told "your whole post sounds as if you just don't think they're very important. And that's a bit shit, really, isn't it?" If this is not passive aggressive or bullying I would like to know what is. No it is just not me feeling "preciouse" I think number two or three fits the bill: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=passive%20aggressive

However as the two recent trans threads have shown resistance to the dominant hegemony is never futile.

TiggyD Tue 29-Jan-13 15:30:16

Sometimes the threads are about things that men know or have opinion about. I'm a Mary Beard fan for example, and support her against the internet name calling.

It's a good place to learn about women's opinions on things.

I suffer from sexism in a female dominated industry. I could talk about that on a men's rights forum but there are a lot of nutters 'interesting' people on those. Lots of things in here also apply to me if you swap male for female.

I help raise young children. There's lots of talk about how that should be done on here.

OneMoreChap Tue 29-Jan-13 16:06:34

I'm interested in feminism, and have been an abortion activist for 35+ years. I came on MN when I saw an article about politicians answering questions about biscuits, and was a bit WTF.

I'm old with grown kids, and learn through a wide range of web forums; this is one place I learn.

TBH the site is "by parents, for parents" so if you don't like parents coming to this site you're a tad out of luck.

Me, I like to rant about fashion magazines, body image and self-esteem. I learned about "male gaze" - which is annoying as fuck once you cotton to it - womanism, and why saying I talk from cis privilege is more annoying than male privilege. [And I was delighted to find an article I love - by a bloke - was quite populare http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/].

BoneyBackJefferson Tue 29-Jan-13 17:15:28

Because I believe in equality.
Because I teach young girls.
Because I want to learn
Because I challege sexist views from both males and females.

larrygrylls Tue 29-Jan-13 17:20:44

Came on here as a parent. Found threads on here by accident when they concerned issues of interest to me. Just came from "most active". Men have little to contribute when a thread solely concerns "women's experiences". However, when women hypothesise about men's motivations and feelings, speaking authoritatively, I feel men should be able to counter them. It always amazes me when women state "men do this because..." or "men feel the right to dominate because" without any recourse to men's views. If men cannot comment on women's "lived experiences", why does not the same apply the other way around?

Also interesting, en passant, to note that threads that are not "derailed" normally peter out after about 50-200 posts but those where us male "derailers" take issue often end up full.

BoneyBackJefferson Tue 29-Jan-13 17:23:53

OP

An honest question.

How do you expect to changed the views of men if you believe that they have nothing of worth to bring to feminist discussions?

OneMoreChap Tue 29-Jan-13 17:39:37

Mitchy1nge
what makes you think you have anything of real value to bring to discussions about women's experiences and expectations?

or indeed, why would you assume that should be expected on a forum called Feminism/Women's Rights chat

JustAHolyFool Tue 29-Jan-13 17:45:10

Like stewie I think it's obvious that there are men who are interested and want to learn, and men who just want to mouth off about how we're all wrong.

Leithlurker Tue 29-Jan-13 17:54:46

A question back again: Once the patriarchy has been thrown down, what would replace it? What sytem of organising society replaces it men will be asked to work within it, this is why many men should have an interest and it is also why any group where ever they take their philosophy from should be inclusive and not exclusive. Those like the BNP or MRA's are exclusive and that's why they are not mainstream. God help us all if people like that ever become mainstream.

Mitchy1nge Tue 29-Jan-13 18:02:45

it's true, am not often accused of contributing anything of value either, but I do make myself laugh sometimes

DadDancer Tue 29-Jan-13 18:06:29

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

NormaStanleyFletcher Tue 29-Jan-13 18:16:05

Thank you DadDancer for telling me what feminism is about, what this section is about, and for telling me how the regulars are stepping out of line when challenging men who understand nothing about what it is like to live a s a woman

Your motives seem so idealistic in telling us the error of our ways

Leithlurker Tue 29-Jan-13 18:31:24

Thank you Norman a very good example of what Dad and I were suggesting. Now I expect others to pile in to your defence and off the merry go round starts again.

A really simple thing would be if you wanted completely women only space go and set up a notice board of your own limit access in what ever way you want, if we menz bully, belittle, derail, object to how you say things then cut us out of the picture. The more democratic and progressive thing though would be to stay and talk to male posters with out letting our lack of appropriate manners put you off. I speak for myself not for others but finding common language and cause has always worked for me much better than seeing everything as an attack.

AnyFucker Tue 29-Jan-13 18:38:19

ooo, look, some blokes have come on this thread to complain about how they have been treated previously by them narsty feminists

how constructive

didn't see that one coming !

< wanders off with glazed expression >

AnyFucker Tue 29-Jan-13 18:42:46

the thing is, LL, some people who come to the feminist section have no intention whatsoever of moving their entrenched ideas either

so your rather naive view of "everyone coming together to find common ground" is never gonna happen

telling Rad Fems that eg. there is no harm in lap dancing clubs is never going to go down well

not ever

so yes, it might be best that if that is your sole aim in coming here (and it seems it is, for some) that you go do it elsewhere

because not only are you wasting your own time, you are wasting everyone elses's

LineRunner Tue 29-Jan-13 18:47:56

larrygrylls Do those threads without derailment really 'peter out' or could they just be completed? smile

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