Just saw this on Facebook

(160 Posts)
shrinkingnora Sat 26-Jan-13 15:18:15

Apologies if this has previously been discussed but a friend has just posted the following on Facebook and I wondered what others thought of it. I would like nice pithy response but am struggling to put it into words. It has really depressed me.

"THINGS YOU SHOULD KNOW IF YOU ARE EVER ATTACKED"

(PLS TAKE TIME TO READ THIS. It may save a life.) Click Share Button to share it on your Wall.

Rapists are predators. Period. Predators never let victims know when they will attack ... or that they literally "hunt" for a victim ... By following these tips, you can make your world a little safer.

It seems that a lot of attackers use some tactic to get away with violence. Not many people know how to take care of themselves when faced with such a situation. Everyone should read this especially each and every girl in this world.

THOUGHT THIS WAS GOOD INFO TO PASS ALONG...

A group of rapists and date rapists in prison were interviewed on what they look for in a potential victim and here are some interesting facts:

1] Understand that your hairstyle could benefit an attacker:
Ponytails and long hair are the number one styles rapists seek because long hair and ponytails are easy to grab. Women with short hair are not common targets. But there are exceptions.

2] The second thing men look for is clothing. They will look for women whose clothing is easy to remove quickly. Many of them carry scissors around to cut clothing.

3] They also look for women using their cell phone, searching through their purse or doing other activities while walking because they are off guard and can be easily overpowered.

4] Be aware of your surroundings at all times:
The places women are abducted from / attacked at /targeted by attempted rapists are grocery store parking lots, office parking lots/garages, public restrooms. These men are predators, so view your surroundings carefully. If you are in a parking lot and feel someone is following you, start making noise - talk to yourself loudly, talk to an imaginary person, or pretend to talk on your cell phone. The louder the potential victim, the more the predator is apt to freeze.

5] Use your loudest voice if you have any doubts.
Remember, its better to be considered crazy, than to keep quiet to avoid weird looks.

6] Work on being assertive:
If somebody is giving you unwanted attention, tell them to back off. There is no need to be polite when somebody is making unwanted sexual advances.

7] The thing about these men is that they are looking to grab a woman and quickly move her to a second location where they don't have to worry about getting caught.

8] If you put up any kind of a fight at all, they get discouraged because it only takes a minute or two for them to realize that going after you isn't worth it because it will be time-consuming.

9] These men said they would not pick on women who have umbrellas, or other similar objects that can be used from a distance, in their hands.

10] Keys are not a deterrent because you have to get really close to the attacker to use them as a weapon. So, the idea is to convince these guys you're not worth it.

POINTS THAT WE SHOULD REMEMBER TO PREVENT A POTENTIAL RAPE

1] If someone is following behind you on a street or in a garage or with you in an elevator or stairwell, look them in the face and ask them a question, like what time is it, or make general small talk: can't believe it is so cold out here, we're in for a bad winter. Now that you've seen their faces and could identify them in a line- up, you lose appeal as a target.

2] If someone is coming toward you, hold out your hands in front of you and yell Stop or Stay back! Most of the rapists this man talked to said they'd leave a woman alone if she yelled or showed that she would not be afraid to fight back. Again, they are looking for an EASY target.

3] If you carry pepper spray (this instructor was a huge advocate of it and carries it with him wherever he goes,) yelling I HAVE PEPPER SPRAY and holding it out will be a deterrent.

4] If someone grabs you, you can't beat them with strength but you can do it by outsmarting them. If you are grabbed around the waist from behind, pinch the attacker either under the arm between the elbow and armpit or in the upper inner thigh - HARD. One woman in a class this guy taught told him she used the underarm pinch on a guy who was trying to date rape her and was so upset she broke through the skin and tore out muscle strands the guy needed stitches. Try pinching yourself in those places as hard as you can stand it; it really hurts.

5] After the initial hit, always go for the groin. I know from a particularly unfortunate experience that if you slap a guy's parts it is extremely painful. You might think that you'll anger the guy and make him want to hurt you more, but the thing these rapists told our instructor is that they want a woman who will not cause him a lot of
trouble. Start causing trouble, and he's out of there.

6] When the guy puts his hands up to you, grab his first two fingers and bend them back as far as possible with as much pressure pushing down on them as possible. The instructor did it to me without using much pressure, and I ended up on my knees and both knuckles cracked
audibly.

7] Of course the things we always hear still apply. Always be aware of your surroundings, take someone with you if you can and if you see any odd behavior, don't dismiss it, and go with your instincts. You may feel little silly at the time, but you'd feel much worse if the guy really was trouble.

8] If a rapist is in your car and is sitting in the passenger seat with a weapon to you, they will tell you to go somewhere where they are less likely to be witnessed. Whatever you do, don't follow their directions. Put on your seat belt, then drive into something stationary, like a dumpster or lamp post. The airbag and seat belt will keep you alive, and the crash will draw attention. It is better to be in a car accident than get raped and possibly killed. Stay calm and try to surprise the rapist.

9] Understand that Vans are the most common vehicles used in rapes. Rapists will park next to the driver's side and, as you are trying to get in, they will pull you into the van. If there is a van on the driver's side of your car, go in through the passenger's door. If there are vans on both sides, go back to where you were and get someone like a security guard to walk you to your car. Don't park any place that feels unsafe.

10] Practice being careful when going into your house or car because someone could easily push you in and lock the door behind you. Be aware of your surroundings; carry your keys ready in your hand and look around you before opening the door.

11] Keep personal information private. Don't advertise your info verbally or on the Internet. Also, be very wary of meeting up with anyone whom you meet on the Internet. There is never a good reason to meet up with a person whom you have never met in person, or who talks you into meeting-up when you are hesitant. If you think you must do so, bring someone else, preferably a friend who is older and meet the person in a public place.

12] Notice and leave identifying marks. A large bite mark on their face, punctured eyeball, deeply scratched leg, ripped out piercing etc. is easily identifiable, as are memorable tattoos, etc. Think kill. Go for weak spots like eyes (poke hard), nose (hard upward motion with the lower part of your open hand) genitals (grab really tightly and squeeze or punch hard) etc. to make sure the person's hands aren't free to punch or hold on to you and you can run for it. If you are in a place where you can't run, notice your surroundings and leave a mark on them if you can. Rapists have been caught because their victims left identifiable teeth marks, nail marks, or DNA in the cars or rooms where they were assaulted.

FINALLY, PLEASE REMEMBER THESE AS WELL....

I know you are smart enough to know these pointers but there will be some, where you will go "hmm I must remember that" After reading, forward it to someone you care about, never hurts to be careful in
this crazy world we live in.

1. Tip from Tae Kwon Do: The elbow is the strongest point on your body. If you are close enough to use it, do it.

2. Learned this from a tourist guide to New Orleans: if a robber asks for your wallet and/or purse, DO NOT HAND IT TO HIM. Toss it away from you.... chances are that he is more interested in your wallet and/or purse than you and he will go for the wallet/purse. RUN LIKE MAD IN THE OTHER DIRECTION!

3. If you are ever thrown into the trunk of a car: Kick out the back tail lights and stick your arm out the hole and start waving like crazy. The driver won't see you but everybody else will. This has saved lives.

4. Women have a tendency to get into their cars after shopping, eating, working, etc., and just sit (doing their checkbook, or making a list, etc. DON'T DO THIS! The predator will be watching you, and this is the perfect opportunity for him to get in on the passenger side, put a gun to your head, and tell you where to go. AS SOON AS YOU CLOSE the DOORS, LEAVE.

5. A few notes about getting into your car in a parking lot, or parking garage:

a. Be aware: look around your car as someone may be hiding at the passenger side, peek into your car, inside the passenger side floor, and in the back seat. (DO THIS TOO BEFORE RIDING A TAXI CAB).

b. If you! U are parked next to a big van, enter your car from the passenger door. Most serial killers attack their victims by pulling them into their vans while the women are attempting to get into their cars.

c. Look at the car parked on the driver's side of your vehicle, and the passenger side. If a male is sitting alone in the seat nearest your car, you may want to walk back into the mall, or work, and get a guard /policeman to walk you back out. IT IS ALWAYS BETTER TO BE SAFE THAN SORRY. (And better paranoid than dead.)

6. ALWAYS take the elevator instead of the stairs. (Stairwells are horrible places to be alone and the perfect crime spot).

7. If the predator has a gun and you are not under his control, ALWAYS RUN! The predator will only hit you (a running target) 4 in 100 times; and even then, it most likely WILL NOT be a vital organ. RUN!

8. As women, we are always trying to be sympathetic: STOP IT! It may get you raped, or killed. Ted Bundy, the serial killer, was a good-looking, well educated man, who ALWAYS played on the sympathies of unsuspecting women. He walked with a cane, or a limp, and often asked "for help" into his vehicle or with his vehicle, which is when he abducted his next victim.

I'd like you to forward this to all the women you know. It may save a life. A candle is not dimmed by lighting another candle. I was going to send this to the ladies only, but guys, if you love your mothers, wives, sisters, daughters, etc., you may want to pass it onto them, as well.

Send this to any woman you know that may need to be reminded that the world we live in has a lot of crazies in it and it's better safe than sorry.

‘Helping hands are better than Praying Lips’ – give us your helping hand.

Take care.

BertieBotts Germany Thu 31-Jan-13 23:26:07

A male friend as well recently posted something on facebook saying that men should be offended by all of the "Prevent rape - don't wear a skirt!" kind of advice, because, as the thing he posted said, that just assumes that as a man you see a woman in a skirt and suddenly can't help yourself but to rape her. Which obviously isn't true, and is pretty insulting to men as a group, really!

BertieBotts Germany Thu 31-Jan-13 23:24:01

<furiously clicks invisible "Like" button on Fastidia's post>

Brilliantly said.

MidnightMasquerader Thu 31-Jan-13 23:20:09

Exactly. /\/\

And I continue to be amazed that so many people - women included - continue to be quite so resistant to even trying to switch tactics and tell men not to do it...

I think it's very interesting, actually. That people are not only not blasé or ambivalent WRT telling men not to rape, but resistant. As if the very idea is so preposterous as to not even be countenanced.

It'd be funny if it wasn't so depressing.

FastidiaBlueberry Thu 31-Jan-13 20:40:12

What MidnightMasquerader said. Burglars know they are burgling. Many rapists don't know they are raping and those who do, can pretend to themselves and everyone else, that they aren't raping. Burglars simply can't call it something else ("blessing someone else with that property" "relieving the householder of stuff they don't need anyway" "facilitating an insurance claim to provide householder with higher quality products" etc.) and not have someone tell them that no, actually, it's burglary and it's a criminal offence. They can't hide behind a more positive term. They also can't pretend that they thought the householder wanted them to take their stuff (-"they didn't have a burglar alarm and the locks were really shit, so they must have wanted me to take it, right?") because nobody would agree that that assumption was reasonable. Rapists can and mostly do and that's why most rapists get away with it.

That's why telling men what rape is and that they shouldn't do it, issimply not comparable to telling burglars what burglary is and they shouldn't do it - everyone knows what burglary is but very few people actually know what rape is. To the degree that even rape victims often don't know they are rape victims. They go into denial about it, convince themselves that because they were drunk or flirting earlier on, or didn't say "no" loudly enough, it can't have been rape.

That's why educating people about rape and telling men not to rape women, is actually a useful thing to do. Much more useful than telling women how to avoid rape. If we could avoid it, then we would and no-one would ever be raped. Given that most women do actually follow most of the rape-avoidance tips and a very large percentage of us are still being raped, that is a huge clue that we need to try something different if we want to stop rape.

NeverKnowinglyUnderstood Thu 31-Jan-13 17:38:52

Hadn't thought of that Norma, I guess you are right about the seatbelt thing as well.

I've had trouble articulating that myself in the past, so credit where it's due smile

NormaStanleyFletcher Cote D'Ivoire Thu 31-Jan-13 15:12:33

Why thank you Sunshine blush

Very astutely and elegantly put, Norma!

NormaStanleyFletcher Cote D'Ivoire Thu 31-Jan-13 14:22:26

Re the burglary, lock your doors analogy. I have seen people post on here angry with their family members for forgetting to lock doors. "what if we had been burgled, it would have been,all his/her fault". Or angry at themselves for leaving their keys in the lock, "luckily nobody took the car, but I would have felt awful". S o saying that no one blames anyone but the burglar is not right.

How do we judge people who don't wear seatbelts? It's just a precaution. It is just making them safer.

People do feel guilt/blame others for not following the "sensible precautions."

So telling women that these are the sensible precautions to take sets them up for guilt and blame.

That is why it is wrong.

NeverKnowinglyUnderstood Thu 31-Jan-13 08:58:42

sorry just read that back and it sounds very random!

NeverKnowinglyUnderstood Thu 31-Jan-13 08:58:01

Indeed Abigail,
the other parallel to draw is with driving. there are roads that are inherently more dangerous to drive than others. However, if I am driving on the M6 at rush hour on a Friday I am in no way to blame for the stupid twat that has driven into me. We can and should be aware of the things we can do to minimise accidents on the roads however there is a concept of being the innocent party in an accident, even if it is dark, or a wiggly road etc..

Glad to see there are people with reason around! I totally agree with Abigail and Midnight.

I take a very firm line on this, which has gotten me into heated debates before. Telling women that they should 'be careful', 'walk in brightly lit areas' etc is sending the message, whether you explicitly say it or not, that if they then get raped it is at least partially their fault for not being more careful. No woman should ever be told to 'be careful' as it sends the message that it's at least partially her responsibility to make sure that she doesn't get raped. Just because you don't use those exact words, it doesn't mean that that's not the message you're sending. Victim blaming isn't always as cut-and-dried as saying categorically "It was her fault".

Also, I find it hard with the rare 'stranger rape' cases not to consider them as a bit of a red herring. When I was seventeen, I went to lie down next to my drunk and upset ex-boyfriend - who had been emotionally abusive in the past, though I didn't recognise it as that then - and he raped me. Should I have been more careful, and not gone to comfort him? I thought I loved him. Is it my fault, because I went and laid down next to him?

It makes me furious that in our society 'telling women to be careful' is still acceptable. I have friends who do this and say "But if something bad happens its still not at all her fault", but in a world where we're constantly told to be careful, if we're not and something bad happens, the message we are getting from society is undeniably "You should have been more careful". It is victim blaming and it is wrong.

MidnightMasquerader Wed 30-Jan-13 22:59:38

'Never make a girl sorry she knew you' is brilliant advice, by the way. smile

MidnightMasquerader Wed 30-Jan-13 22:55:41

I think the education comes in not with stranger rape, most people know that's wrong (apart from the occasional American politician) but with assaults by acquaintances. Too many men have completely the wrong idea about what's ok.

So you agree then....

That yes, the idea should be to tackle men, and their thinking. Acquaintance rape is far more common and widespread than stranger rape. And many men who rape acquaintances don't think of themselves as rapists - or criminals to use another term (the term people who like to use the burglary analogy tend to use).

Telling burglers not to steal stuff may have limited effect, sure - since they know full well they're criminals. But telling men not to put their unwanted penises in other people's bodies might just work since previously many of these men simply haven't fully taken it in that they're just not entitled to do that.

So targeting them and getting them to re-think their position surely is the answer. 'Restricting' their freedoms and getting them to modify their behaviour surely is the answer.

Writehand Wed 30-Jan-13 21:43:29

I dunno, mockeveryweek. I've only got DSs. I told them their dad's rule when they were about 11: Never make a girl sorry she knew you. If you spell it out it covers everything, I think.

That means never do anything she doesn't want, and if she does want to do sexual things with you then don't make her pregnant, pass on diseases or talk about her to your mates. Oh, and any violence against women is not only intolerable but disgraceful. To my DH it was the standard for being a "real man": real men don't hit women.

Thanks knowing. That sounds like a simple effective approach.

NeverKnowinglyUnderstood Wed 30-Jan-13 21:41:34

with DS totally as a result of my baggage.. when we have talked about sex we have talked about it feeling nice,, but only if both of you want it, if either of you are not happy with it - it wont feel nice and you shouldn't do it.

Can I ask, as the mother of a DD and a DS, has anyone got any good tips for approaching this subject and at what ages roughly? I am desperate for my DCs to understand this issue.

(That is that men shouldn't rape and women shouldn't have to adjust their behaviour to avoid rape)

AbigailAdams Wed 30-Jan-13 21:32:47

NeverKnowinglyUnderstood, that was terrible. I am so sorry that happened to you. And I am so sorry you ever felt it was your fault. You just shouldn't have had to go through that as well.

Writehand Wed 30-Jan-13 21:08:07

Very good points, NeverKnowinglyUnderstood (love the name, btw) I would make the same -- indeed, I remember in a very old book about rape, Against Our Will, by Susan Brownmiller (1975) reading that false reports of rape were as rare as false reports of burglary or arson. People do make false reports of major crimes, but it's rare. I don't know what the stats are now. Of course it's tricky - to a Saudi Arabian police officer all accusations rapes are false.

However in our society, if a very drunk bloke takes a woman back to his place and passes out, he's not going to find the police madly sympathetic if he wakes up to find she's gone off with all his money. "Are you sure you didn't give her the money, sir?" I can imagine them asking. There's principles, and then there's life as she is experienced... smile

I think the education comes in not with stranger rape, most people know that's wrong (apart from the occasional American politician) but with assaults by acquaintances. Too many men have completely the wrong idea about what's ok. And as for SS when it comes to underage girls... Don't get me started! Your experience was ghastly. I had one similar but far less severe abd traumatic, and I assumed I had to put up with it too,

LineRunner Wed 30-Jan-13 20:51:08

I support the 'Men: Don't Rape Women and Girls' message for a number of reasons.

A huge amount of rapes are 'acquaintance rapes'; other rapes are often committed by rapists 'escalating' from these; and - as NeverKnowingly movingly reveals above - victims have a right to know that society clearly and unhesitatingly believes that all rape is always wrong.

NeverKnowinglyUnderstood Wed 30-Jan-13 20:36:05

If you are going to mention burglary, that is interesting.

How many times has a policeman turned up at a scene of a burglary and assumed it had not occured or been faked or assumed the victim had somehow asked for it??

You are still a victim of burglary if you left your back door open,
if you fell asleep drunk on the sofa and someone walked in and nicked your precious possessions, and yet the same is NOT seen to be true if you are sexually attacked and you had your tits out, or skirt too short. Or were out of your head on drugs or alcohol.

you wouldn't need to be so verbal about telling rapists not to rape if the public perception about rape was the same as burglary aka attacking the "english mans castle"

FWIW I was raped when I was 11, I had a princess Di haircut, the man had been nice to me, and even though I know I shouldn't have taken the can of coke he offered, I did. It has taken me 25 years to realise that taking a can of coke is not the same as asking to be orally vaginally then analy raped. AND that even if I had asked him to do it I was 11 and it would still have been rape.

Writehand Wed 30-Jan-13 20:07:26

OK, MidnightMasquerador. We're going to try to reduce burglary. Shall we spend all our money on putting up posters and ads reminding burglars that it's wrong to do it? Would this be the best way of reducing burglary?

Or do you think, as I do, that reminding people about home security, property marking and about being careful who they tell their holiday dates to might work better? That seems to be what the Crime Prevention people think.

That's my point. If criminals obeyed public information adverts they wouldn't be criminals. We take steps to avoid crime when it's theft. Why is rape different? In an ideal world we could all walk around wearing nothing but diamonds. But we don't live in an ideal world.

The posters cover acquaintance rape, and they're very cool, because a lot of men don't register that acquaintance rape is rape. But even men are generally aware that stranger rape, which is what the tips are about, is a crime just as beating someone up is a crime.

AbigailAdams Wed 30-Jan-13 19:54:12

Sorry Writehand I was a bit brusque there! In a rush. Tbh though I think others on this thread have said it better than me.

MidnightMasquerader Wed 30-Jan-13 19:32:40

Writehand - how can you say Abigail has misunderstood?

The only way to debunk rape myths and enforce a sea-change in attitudes towards rape is to start to focus the tips and recommendations and restrictions on the people who do the raping, rather than - as has always been done to zero effect - the people who are raped.

I'm also it amazing that people think it is OK to restrict women's freedom, but not the perpetrator's.

I'm not missing the point either.

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