Five men facing death penalty after bus rape

(504 Posts)
allthegoodnamesweretaken Sun 13-Jan-13 19:15:31

BBC news link here

I'm feeling conflicted about this. Obviously what these men did was horrific, vile and unforgivable. But I just cannot agree with the death penalty.

I feel like I am somehow excusing what they did by not wanting them to be killed, and I can't emphasise enough how despicable I find their actions.

Does the fact that they violated the poor woman's human rights so violently and abhorrently mean they should have their right to life taken away too? Am i being too soft?

I suppose I am asking how you all feel about this, how do you think they should be punished? Also have you ever had your feminist views conflict with other principles, and how have you dealt with this?

<Really hoping I don't get flamed>

LovesGSD Sun 13-Jan-13 22:52:16

100% agree with Waynetta !!

Schooldidi Sun 13-Jan-13 22:53:42

But the death penalty doesn't seem to work as a deterrent for murder, at least not in any statistics I have ever seen (I will admit it's been a while since I looked at any statistics), why would it work as a deterrent for rape? Criminals think they will get away with it, they assume they will not face the death penalty in the same way they assume they will not serve life imprisonment.

ReallyTired Sun 13-Jan-13 22:54:44

India is a third world country where innocent babies die because their parents cannot afford to feed them. They don't have the luxury of keeping murders in jail for decades.

I feel uncomfortable about the death penalty, however its understandable that India would rather keep orphans alive than these scum.

LetsFaceTheMusicAndDance Sun 13-Jan-13 22:58:21

Clearly the existence of the death penalty was not a deterrrant to these men, which undermines one of the main justifications people who support its existence give.

In the USA, states that have the death penalty do not necessarily have lower serious crime rates per capita than states that do not have the death penalty.

That just leaves revenge as a reason for having the death penalty. Not in my name thank you, however horrific the crime.

And to the poster who maintains that these men were somehow not quite human - well that's how the Nazi's justified the extermination of so many Jews. So you might want to reconsider that thought process.

OP - I agree with you - and it's difficult to be so conflicted. And I don't think feminism comes into it - just common, decent humanity. That poor, poor woman.

edam Sun 13-Jan-13 22:58:22

I don't agree with the death penalty for several reasons but the biggest one being any system of criminal justice is fallible, and you can't put right a miscarriage of justice once someone is dead.

What the rapists and murderers did is hideous and if these are the men responsible I hope they are found guilty and my preference would be locked up for life. But I'm not in charge of the Indian criminal justice system, no doubt they will get whatever penalty is deemed appropriate.

More important question is what is India going to do to tackle crime against women in general? To stop more crimes like this happening?

nkf Sun 13-Jan-13 23:02:05

I am 100% opposed to the death penalty. And I think I have read (too late on a Sunday to trace the source) that countries that use it tend to be more violent and dangerous than ones that don't. The only thing in its favour seems to be cost.

expatinscotland Sun 13-Jan-13 23:02:59

It's not the West. It can't be treated the same way. This case has made me question what I used to believe, but everything in the past year has made me question what I believe.

Theala Sun 13-Jan-13 23:04:46

In my heart, I hope those bastards hang. I hope they feel the same fear and dread as Jyoti did. I hope they feel that at the last minute and that they understand what they put her through and that they feel remorse and that it's too late and that they fucking hang.

In my head, I hope that the state doesn't sink to the same level of violence and brutality as they did.

I think the justice system was invented so that the head decides. I hope that is the case here.

Jinsei Sun 13-Jan-13 23:05:45

There is already a death penalty in India. It did nothing to help poor Jyoti.

It is entirely natural and understandable that her family should want the perpetrators to die for their crimes. If someone had done that to my dd, I would probably want to kill them with my own hands. But that would not make it right for the state to kill them.

I agree with Trills. I am against the death penalty in all cases. The fact that those monsters may deserve to die doesn't necessarily make it right for the state to kill them.

WeAreEternal Sun 13-Jan-13 23:06:40

They aren't getting the death penalty just for raping the woman.
They are being sentenced to death for raping and murdering her.

The story is talking about the first attack in which the victim was murdered, that is why they are being sentenced to death.

WaynettaSlobsLover Sun 13-Jan-13 23:07:53

I hope they all get raped to death. And I do not apologise for that. Death penalty I'm afraid is the only way to hit home with these mentally backwards and purely evil things with penises.

mcmooncup Sun 13-Jan-13 23:08:17

violent solutions to violence problems don't work.

Lock them up forever.

WaynettaSlobsLover Sun 13-Jan-13 23:11:44

I think in this case if they did suffer exactly the equivalent of what they did to jyoti, it would be a case of violence working. It's called having a taste of your own medicine.

MarkGruffalohohoho Sun 13-Jan-13 23:13:44

Completely understand why parents would seek death penalty.

Am in agreement with Booyhoo though that executing them is too
easy for them.

Should be made to do hard labour e.g. hitting rocks every day until their demise.

AnAirOfHope Sun 13-Jan-13 23:17:01

I agree with Trills.

allthegoodnamesweretaken Sun 13-Jan-13 23:17:48

WaynettaSlobsLover I think that the way women are treated can be improved more effectively through education. As others have said, the death penalty isn't an effective deterrent, people these men committed this rape knowing that the penalty should they be caught would be death, and they chose to do it when media attention was focused on this particular issue in this particular country (this case is the second bus rape that akissisnotacontract is referring to). They must have known that they would be made an example of if caught.

I'm not claiming to know all the answers, but surely trying to prevent this evil crime is better than focusing on revenge in its aftermath?

noblegiraffe Sun 13-Jan-13 23:19:33

What if they've got the wrong men? I imagine that there was a lot of pressure on the police to round up some suspects.

And even if they did get the right people this time, next time an innocent person might be executed. Or the time after that. It's inevitable in a justice system run by imperfect humans. Look at the number of people on America's death row who have been released because DNA evidence showed conclusively they didn't do it. Some of these people even confessed to the crime that they didn't do, and which they were sentenced to death for.

Much as I would want the people who committed this horrific crime to die, a system of justice which involves killing people will end up killing innocent people, and that is too unacceptable to risk.

Flojobunny Sun 13-Jan-13 23:21:08

Your title is wrong. They aren't getting the death penalty for rape, they are getting the death penalty for murder.
I don't usually agree with the death penalty but for this terrible crime I think it is justified. They didn't just rape her and throw her off the bus. The internal injuries she received whilst alive and conscious is unthinkable. She must have been in agony and so very frightened.

allthegoodnamesweretaken Sun 13-Jan-13 23:22:57

No sorry, I misread the article. These men are facing trial for Jyoti, the article also refers to a similar, more recent case.

But in any case, the men who have committed the second attack did so despite all the things I stated in my last post, so the argument is the same.

allthegoodnamesweretaken Sun 13-Jan-13 23:24:00

Thanks Flojo how do i change the title?

Zavi Sun 13-Jan-13 23:28:35

No. Absolutely not. They should not be executed. What sort of message does that send out:

Right, you've killed someone. It is such an awful thing to do that we are going to kill you!

In order for a life, any life, to be respected and regarded as sacred, it must be protected. Always. Even murderers.

That's the only was to really get the message across that life is sacred. Otherwise it sends the message that killing is justifiable.

Countries/States that still have the death penalty are typically violent and uncivilised with high murder rates.

mercibucket Sun 13-Jan-13 23:30:48

i am opposed to the death penalty for any crime. just because it is cheaper to kill someone does not make it the better punishment. as india already has the death penalty it would appear clear it did not in fact act as a deterent either

Narked Sun 13-Jan-13 23:31:15

I don't believe in the death penalty. I don't think the state has that right and people could be wrongly executed. I also believe it's too easy. I think locking someone away for the rest of their natural life in a cell on their own with minimal human contact is a greater punishment.

Flojobunny Sun 13-Jan-13 23:31:24

You cant!
It is controversial though, as these men had no idea that they would be punished. As we've seen since the case there was a 10 month old girl raped and the man got let off and a 14 year old raped in a police station and no one punished so these men never knew they would face these consequences and might have thought twice if they did. I doubt it since its happened again, but I think by them being punished and given the death penalty will send out a strong message. This publicity and protests can only be a good thing for India.

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers Sun 13-Jan-13 23:46:40

YABU. They deserve to die.

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