ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
I wanted to bite....but didn't(22 Posts)
Cheeky cow. I would have bitten.
^ "I've never heard of such a thing before!"^
christ tell her to not turn on the news then... women are voting and everything!
I thought I might get flamed for saying that, but I don't care if you think it is misogynist (though not as misogynist as her comment by any stretch). I refuse to routinely absolve women who buy into the patriarchy. I absolutely will not subscribe to backing women no matter how daft the comment is they make, not will I always absolve them of responsibility for kow-towing to the patriarchy.
The original wording did sound a bit funny esp about the IQ, but personally I agree with your sentiment. We can't win the war if our side keep sneaking off to do the other side's laundry.
Gah! It's so hard to say when someone comes out with tripe like this on the fly, when you least expect it. It's the same with racist comments from strangers. In both cases, I am usually shocked that a total stranger feels entitled to assume that I (or in your case your child,) agree with their "view of the world," which clearly is a biased and bigoted one.
Yes, there are some women who think they will get ahead better if they "play along with" the sexist system, so they perpetuate misogynist attitudes themselves. Perhaps it's seems harder to understand, Andrea Dworkin (amongst others) described this phenomenon within her book "Right Wing Women." She suggested that playing along with the patriarchy was seen as a sort of "survival option" for some women who didn't feel they could actually challenge it, or at least challenge it all the time.
Anyhoo, in the ideal situation, I'm sure you could have come up with any number of come backs like, (speaking to your son), "It's okay to tell the lady that she is wrong and doesn't understand mums and dads both work these days, you know like SHE is doing now," or similar. It's irritating, but honestly not worth the headspace of feeling annoyed that you didn't have the perfect line. However, next time someone makes a sexist remark to you or your child, maybe you'll have thought about it a bit more and have a quip ready to pull out!
If it ever happens again,I will challenge it.
Another little story to make you laugh (or cry). My mother popped round last weekend and saw DH ironing his shirts. She looked at him with amazement...."are you ironing your own shirts?" she asked him. Look of confusion on DH's face. "I've never heard of such a thing before!" she said.
Is there any wonder I aimed to grow up differently to her!!!
Oh don't go Grimble, I know how exasperating things are. I'm so sick of having to listen to porn supporters, handmaidens, watching friends suffer DV because they think it's fine....
I would say though that even the Suffragettes were middle class with privilege. Emeline, told her daughter to go set up another organisation for the women from the factories
I don't think other women need to be challenged....rather we need to challenge them to wake up and think.
Flats - I thought I might get flamed for saying that, but I don't care if you think it is misogynist (though not as misogynist as her comment by any stretch). I refuse to routinely absolve women who buy into the patriarchy. I absolutely will not subscribe to backing women no matter how daft the comment is they make, not will I always absolve them of responsibility for kow-towing to the patriarchy.
As long as we are only "concerned" nothing will change. Empathy, sympathy and support will get our sisters so far, but sometimes exasperation, argument and calling them out on it will at least make them think - which clearly they are not doing if they are making crass comments like that.
I agree Snake it is difficult sometimes to call someone out something when you are so shocked that there are women who still think like that. But we are far more supportive of our sex if we do, then if we just tut and cluck on MN.
I agree with Minx it is not women like her that are the cause of the problem
but proof we have a problem. And that's why women like that should be challenged every time.
Should not have cast aspersions on her IQ - out of order I know, but Jesus wept, a century on from the suffragettes and there are still women like that around. I despair.
Will leave the thread as I clearly annoy some posters by letting my exasperation get the better of me.
Absolutely Annie , as I was leaving I did actually think that, I mean, does she see her money as 'pin money' as my mother always called it?
I spoke to the DC's about it, they know that DH and I work as hard as each other both in and out of the home...in fact, DD said 'you're paying for our Disney holiday next year, aren't you Mummy?' to which I was and
I'm afraid that you only have to hear snapshots of conversation, much the same as mine yesterday, to know that we really do have a problem. Unfortunately, if you're bought up with this attitude, it takes an individual, more highly educated (not a class thing imo) or just simply more questioning, to break from the mold and pipe up!
"it isn't women like her that are the cause of the problem, they are the living proof that we have a problem."
Very well expressed.
Is it not a case that those women with the lowest economic and social standing, whilst suffering the worst oppression, lack the education to question the reality of their lives. Calling her a thicko is not on. These are the women that we should be concerned about.
I might have said, "No, this is our benefits money luv, we don't work" you can bet that this working class women would have been indignant that you are scroungers! which proves the point that we are all now invited to understand our situation as that of an individual rather than a class, be it based on sex or socio/economic class. You might like to remember that it isn't women like her that are the cause of the problem, they are the living proof that we have a problem.
It's sad isn't it
It always bothers me more to hear mysogonistic comments from women rather than men.
It's like some freaky kind of Stockholm syndrome.
It's sometimes hard to respond when you're so taken aback, isn't it. Next time, do try and challenge it - "It certainly doesn't work that way in our house, and I'm sure it won't work like that when you & dd are bigger ds" would do.
Agree with Annie, I'd make sure I referenced it with the kids as I think the drip drip feed is really dangerous (your ds is certainly old enough to understand that both mummies and daddies can earn and spend money equally)
Oh, and yes it will be those women who are less academically endowed that don't think to question societal stereotypes. Being less than average intelligence doesn't make you a knobhead.
'Just what is wrong with some women? Are they born with IQs smaller than their shoe size?'
What is 'wrong' with some women is that they have been socialised into patriarchal ways of thinking and they are comfortable with that - it takes guts and individuality to step out of the box.
I always say something like, "I earn the money and Daddy spends it".
And there she was, actually working for a wage herself, talking about men doing all the earning? Or does she enjoy working at a checkout so much they don't even need to pay her?
I'd raise the subject at the earliest opportunity with the DCs so they realise that some people they'll come across have really weird opinions and shouldn't be taken seriously.
Wow. What a knob (the checkout woman, not you). Not a single clue, some people.
Just what is wrong with some women? Are they born with IQs smaller than their shoe size?
Who needs misogynist men hey?
you really should have bit. Just for your dc's sake if not for your own. That just isn't funny
Dear god, did you step through a timewarp?!
I went to the supermarket earlier, I'd been working from home so gave our Nanny the afternoon off and collected the children from school myself. Popped in for a few provisions....whilst we're paying, the checkout lady, only in her 30's,so no generation difference excuses, said to DS(5) "are you paying today?" To which he nodded and smiled. She then said to him " Daddy earns the money and these two (looking and laughing conspiratorially at me and DD) spend it, do they?" . I had no idea what to say. I thought of a million and one responses when I left but regret not saying something. DH and I do the same job and I earn slightly more! But even if that wasn't the case, I hate that sort of thing in front of DD! Still annoyed.
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