Local radio ad advising on drinking alcohol and rape

(14 Posts)
FrothyDragon Wed 26-Dec-12 15:48:58

It reminds them that all of these things are actually rape and aren't acceptable. Blokes who can't get beyond the, "this insults me, so I'm not willing to listen," I would wager aren't going to be open to the message anyhow, no matter how many layers of sugar coating you put on it.

Couldn't agree more.

The whole "this is offensive to non-rapist men" thing kinda bugs me. For years, we've had messages sent out to women ("Don't own a vagina, it puts you at risk"), and you know what? I'd rather a few men got "offended", than we put up with all the victim blaming shit.

Following the sentencing of R v Evans, countless men took to twitter, declaring that if what Evans did was rape, then every lad who slept with drunk woman on a Saturday night should be locked up. We need to remind men intercourse with a woman too drunk to consent is rape, and their own drunkeness isn't an excuse. Otherwise, we see more cases like Evans, and more men pleading ignorance and more outrage when a man is rightfully convicted for rape.

KRITIQ Mon 24-Dec-12 00:27:40

Bela, I disagree. A person is only a rapist once they have committed a rape, so by definition, one goes from being a non-rapist to being a rapist the first time they rape.

I haven't heard the advert, but I think the point of this and other campaigns (like the Lothian & Borders Police We Can Stop It campaign,) is to emphasise that there are men who rape, but don't consider themselves rapists. They don't see anything particularly wrong, or at least not terribly wrong about coercing someone to have sex, having sex with someone who's too hammered to consent or pushing the other person to do something sexually they aren't happy with and/or not stopping if they say stop.

It reminds them that all of these things are actually rape and aren't acceptable. Blokes who can't get beyond the, "this insults me, so I'm not willing to listen," I would wager aren't going to be open to the message anyhow, no matter how many layers of sugar coating you put on it.

BelaLugosisShed Sun 23-Dec-12 13:38:35

Actually, I think it's as insulting to men who aren't rapists (no matter how much they've had to drink) as the "women - don't get drunk or you might get raped" adverts are to women.
No amount of drink would turn a non-rapist into a rapist - I think it's a dangerous message.

CailinDana Sat 22-Dec-12 23:23:05

A really valid question I think Picadilly. And I totally get what you're saying.

The issue is what we mean by "sex." IMO a massive problem we have, which is a product of our patriarchal society, is that "sex" is seen as "man puts penis in woman and ejaculates." It's seen as something men aim to do, with women acting as the permission-givers and consent-bestowers - they "let" the man do it to them. The subtle but pervasive view is that women are passive in the act of sex and that it's acceptable for them to expect to submit to it, to allow a man to do it to them, in certain circumstances because it's not really about their own wants or needs, or their own pleasure, it's about whether or not they "allow it to happen." This is where many of the rape myths come from IMO - they come from the idea that simply allowing sex to happen by being in a certain place, or dressing a certain way, is enough to mitigate rape. The fact that the woman doesn't want that sex is neither here nor there - her role is not to want or not want, it's to allow or not allow, and in the minds of many people doing certain things allows sex and therefore puts some of the blame on the victim.

Going on that framework, you could argue that yes, a man who doesn't get consent might be just getting sex where he can rather than being out for control or power.

But "sex" in a loving couple and "sex" in rape couldn't be more different. The man who rapes isn't looking for the sex that man in the loving couple is looking for - he is looking for something entirely different. He doesn't get a thrill out of the woman looking in his eyes, showing pleasure, he gets thrill out of a woman who is either passed out or terrified. So there is a difference, a very clear one.

So perhaps it makes more sense to say that sex is something both people enthusiastically participate in and enjoy (the underlying idea of the "only yes is yes" idea KRITIQ mentioned), a shared experience that requires both parties to be entirely on board. Whereas what happens in rape is not sex, it's the man hurting the woman in a very specific way. It's assault, not sex, and behind assault is the desire to control and overpower.

The idea that rape is just sex a man takes without consent shows how fucked up our ideas of sex actually are.

The guy that raped me didn't want sex. He was angry that I wouldn't have sex without a condom and saw me being asleep as a way of getting around my pesky wishes to assert his right to use my body in exactly the way he wanted. We did not have sex. He used his penis to punish me.

SolidGoldFrankensteinandmurgh Sat 22-Dec-12 23:07:09

I haven't heard this ad but I think it's brilliant that there's an anti-rape campaign aimed at men. It needs to be ongoing current discourse that it's not OK to force women to engage in sex, or to have sex on them without bothering to check if they want you to do so. And it is a very valid warning: don't get so pissed that you forget to ask if it's OK to stick your dick in someone. Far more valid than 'don't get pissed or a man might stick his dick in you.'

KRITIQ Sat 22-Dec-12 22:53:54

But getting something you want, not caring if this harms another person IS exerting one's position of power and control relative to the other person. Sometimes men specifically get off on forcing a woman to have sex, making them do something sexually they don't want and/or knowing the woman is hurting or distressed by the sex act.

These are all popular themes in mainstream porn, which is where many young boys gain their 'grounding' in what 'normal' sex is about. The 'getting your rocks off' message gets emeshed with 'controlling a woman is sexually stimulating' message.

So, imho, it's important to combine the, 'only yes is yes,' message with the context of rape as a manifestation of gender oppression in society. Men and boys are conditioned to believe they hold greater value than women and girls and they are entitled to a range of 'services' from them, including sex. Campaigns on rape targeting men are to make them conscious of their privilege, and of their choice whether to exercise that privilege even when it harms another, or not!

PiccadillyCervix Sat 22-Dec-12 22:22:20

That sounds great.

This is kind of off topic but based on your OP.. I have noticed that anytime someone discusses rape most people are very quick to say it isn't about sex but about control. I never accepted that totally and I think the fact that alcohol is involved in many rapes says that some men just want sex and don't care how they go about it... but normally while sober their morals or at least fear of jail is enough to keep them from acting on these urges.

Also most feminist will say that we teach our sons that their is no ambiguity about consent. No means no. If rape is always about control this wouldn't really help in that scenario. Right?

Do you think saying that sometimes rape is just about someone wanting to get their rocks off but not caring about who they hurt is helpful?

LovesBeingAtHomeForChristmas Sat 22-Dec-12 22:15:24

I've seen the ad tonight and thought it was very powerful.

Sunnywithachanceofjinglebells Sat 22-Dec-12 22:09:28

Sorry, my wording was ambiguous.

It features a teenager pressuring his girlfriend into having sex in a bedroom. The teenager is also shown watching this scene, shouting at himself 'stop doing that' (or similar words).

I'm so pleased it focuses on the perpetrator, not the the victim.

FivesGoldNorks Sat 22-Dec-12 20:58:28

I haven't but I don't really watch live TV, is there one?

Sunnywithachanceofjinglebells Sat 22-Dec-12 20:20:05

That's brilliant.

Have you seen a TV ad aimed at young men?

ChristmasNamechangeBridezilla Sat 22-Dec-12 20:13:46

Excellent. This is progress!

SledYuleCated Sat 22-Dec-12 20:11:31

Slowly, very slowly, they seem to be getting there.

FivesGoldNorks Sat 22-Dec-12 19:38:52

Focuses entirely on men. If you drink you may turn into a rapist. Women dont have to say "no" to mean no. Don't drink too much and rape people.
Wonderful

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