akaemmafrosts's SAHM thread. AIBU?

(122 Posts)
garlicbaubles Sun 16-Dec-12 20:57:55

Here it is. I have had to hide it. I keep blurting un-sisterly remarks at the posts - or, more accurately, at posters' general reluctance to observe what I consider to be blatant facts of life and an unwise sense of entitlement.

I agree with the OP.

AIBU?

HoleyGhost Mon 17-Dec-12 21:15:34

And no degree makes it much harder to get work that will cover the costs of childcare.

I hope my dc do get degrees.

HoleyGhost Mon 17-Dec-12 21:17:41

Much misery has been spread using pseudo science regarding the early years.

Adversecalendar Mon 17-Dec-12 21:43:46

Guessing I am a similar age to op. The other thing to consider is that obtaining a degree was not necessary for many jobs that do require this now. The young woman of 25 who has recently started in my work place and has exactly the same job description as me is educated to masters level, this is a mid level administration job.

It horrifies me that anyone would need to take on student loans for a job like mine.

catgirl1976geesealaying Mon 17-Dec-12 21:48:14

Not to keep banging on about my workplace but

We expect the receptionist and admin staff to have degrees.

No need for it, no one cares what it's in, but there is a perception they will be brighter.

They still have to have relevant, current work experience as well and we won't touch anyone with less than 2 years experience post graduation.

We don't count voluntary work as relevant.

We think women with children are not a good bet as they will need time off when they are ill etc.

Sadly, I don't actually think we are that unusual tbh.

carpetsw33per Mon 17-Dec-12 21:51:07

I suspect that as degrees become more of a thing for the rich, that equalities legislation will change to PREVENT employers requiring a degree.

I have a close friend with an IT company that has recently stopped requiring this. She said to me "why do I need a graduate with knowledge that is three years out of date when a sixteen year old could be trained to be an incredible programmer in a few months?"

So perhaps degrees will be LESS important, the more they become the preserve of the well off...?

Leafmould Mon 17-Dec-12 21:53:41

The school system in Germany is significantly different from the uk. I'm not totally clued up on it, but i gather that You start aged 7, and the timetable is 8-2. Totally incompatible with a working day. You have to pay for a significant number of hours child care on top of the school day right up to 2ndary school.

When we visited, there were soo few kids around. My kids had the play park to themselves at the weekend!

Anyway, I have found this thread really interesting. I have always trusted that my partner and I would always see each other right. But I can see how naive that is.

And I know older women with no pension, younger women who lost out on housing/ material goods at a breakup. I have too, if I remember back in the dim and distant past. My emotional well being was far more important to me than a mere credit card bill.

catgirl1976geesealaying Mon 17-Dec-12 21:53:47

That's interesting Carpets

Although I really hope degrees do not become the preserve of the rich

It saddens me that people may be put off going to university. I don't feel people should be. If you don't get a well paid job you don't pay back, if you do you do.

FabulousFreaks Mon 17-Dec-12 21:56:11

"Take pride in living off a man" , "bin cvs from sahm"

Wow and wow do you even begin to understand how deeply flawed this is. Shameful and plain wrong. For those complicit in such thoughts and behaviour SHAME on you!

Leafmould Mon 17-Dec-12 21:57:10

Cat girl, wow that's depressing. What sector do you work in?

Carpets I think, given what cat girl is telling us, that IT as a sector may be more forward-looking and the pace of change there means on the job training is more relevant. I doubt many other sectors are quite like this.

equalities legislation for the degree barrier? Wow!

WidowWadman Mon 17-Dec-12 21:57:46

garlic - childcare in Germany is cheaper/more heavily subsidised, but if you stick to the subsidised state childcare alone, there's no chance you can do a full time job at the same time. There's closing times for several weeks each year, just like schools do, it's hard to get a full time place, if there are any at all, plus it's pretty hard to get a place in the first place.

They have now an act which says that 2 year olds are guaranteed a childcare place (again, we're not talking full time) and at the same time the so called "Herdpraemie", paying parents for not sending their children into childcare, because there aren't enough spaces.

In some ways Germany seems more advanced, e.g. paternity rights, and the incentive to share maternity/paternity leave.

There are 3 years maternity leave (with up to two years maternity pay if you choose to split it), which puts pressure onto women to stay at home for these 3 years.

Also, a lot of mothers work only in so called €400 jobs which are free from tax or social insurance contributions (with all the disadvantages you can get from not paying social insurance).

Comparing German forums to UK based ones, the SAHM vs WOHM debate is more ferocious over there, I think and women returning to work after a year get loads of raised eyebrows and tutting.

catgirl1976geesealaying Mon 17-Dec-12 21:58:57

Of course I know it's flawed and wrong

But it's the reality

Unemployment is huge. Competition for jobs is fierce. Things are a bit shit in case you hadn't noticed.

TheSecondComing Mon 17-Dec-12 21:59:07

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

catgirl1976geesealaying Mon 17-Dec-12 21:59:53

Something around trading leaf

It's fairly male dominated and old school sadly.

WidowWadman Mon 17-Dec-12 22:00:08

catgirl - where on earth do you work and isn't your employer at least slightly nervous of being done for discrimination?

Leafmould Mon 17-Dec-12 22:01:09

Interesting post widow.

It sounds like the system there is really divisive.

catgirl1976geesealaying Mon 17-Dec-12 22:02:20

They are pretty blase widow

I guess they think it hasn't happened yet so they are safe

Ironically, we are also on a prestigious newspaper based awards list for how good the workplace is

Leafmould Mon 17-Dec-12 22:05:07

So, 2nd coming, do you feel fairly secure? You hav your own home, and feel that although your industry is pretty much dead, you will be able to pick up enough work to re-start a career when you want or need to.

It sounds like you are in a fairly optimistic position.

TheSecondComing Mon 17-Dec-12 22:12:24

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

catgirl1976geesealaying Mon 17-Dec-12 22:14:50

See, you've got some security with your house TSC which I think makes a big difference

Plus you sound like the sort of person who just makes life work

bigkidsdidit Mon 17-Dec-12 22:26:52

Yes the other thread was about the dangers of not having savings etc in your own name which you have done.

People couldn't possibly use equalities legislation to not be able to ask for degrees. They are achievements, you're not born with them. My job required a phd - that's not discriminatory (well, it does discriminate, but not unfairly)

I do think the idea of stepping off the job treadmill for ten years then hopping back on is a pre-recession concept. That's interesting what you say about it TSC - that the financial situation may open more doors for the brave.

drcrab Mon 17-Dec-12 22:39:57

I agree with what everyone's said here. But wanted to add something else. To be able to do something 'different' esp in this recession where no one is hiring etc requires capital or some sort of financial backing.

Eg dh and I both work ft. He got made redundant a year ago (professional, white collared etc) and decided to set up on his own. We couldn't claim any tax credits or whatever.

There's no way he could have pursued this option if I wasn't working and therefore supporting the family. We dropped drastically to one income. If I wasn't working, he would have had to take whatever job was going (good or bad!). His industry wasn't and still isn't hiring. He's doing v well but income is erratic.

rosabud Mon 17-Dec-12 22:56:38

Very interesting to read these posts - especially from those of you who are clearly in well established careers and are "in the know," so to speak, on current employment prospects. I did not realize that it was so difficult for SAHPs to get back into work these days, my friends have all managed it, but there could be a variety of reasons for that, including luck. Just out of interest, though, when I became a single parent I was more entitled to help with things like childcare costs etc which has helped with the going back to (or, indeed, would have helped with the satying in) work situation. However, when I first became a SAHM I was in a marriage and not entitled to that help so my childcare costs (especially when they were all pre-school age) made staying in work impossible - it would have been far too expensive. So what should I have done under those circumstances then?

TheSecondComing Mon 17-Dec-12 23:03:10

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BadRoly Mon 17-Dec-12 23:03:13

I too am following this thread with interest. I gave up work to be a SAHM over 11 years ago when dd1 was born. So pre-recession.

Dh and I have always pooled our money pre children so there has never been a his/hers split financially. I have worked for short periods in between pregnancies but know that a return to work now would be nigh on impossible. We relocated for dh's job so all my work contacts are 250miles away.

I have been book keeping for dh's company and I had been toying with the idea of training formally when ds2 starts school in September. But I confess that the comments on this thread make me question whether there is any point in doing such a thing.

Viviennemary Mon 17-Dec-12 23:05:09

I must say I was a bit shocked to read the CV's of SAHM's are binned. Surely it must depend upon the experience and qualifications of the individual. But personally I think it's OK to have a couple of years out. But staying at home for ten years is quite a risk in this day and age. I don't know anybody these days who stays at home. Apart from me that is. And others like me who have done their stint.

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