I am baffled - possibly triggering

(18 Posts)
Sausageeggbacon Wed 07-Nov-12 10:43:53

Ok was looking into rape figures world wide to see if not having lap dancing clubs would really lower rape figures and got a surprise

2009 figures from the UN on Wiki (not the best source but)

Iceland 24.7 rapes per 100,000
England and Wales 27.5 per 100,000
Sweden 63.8 per 100,00

Iceland is a tiny population and you would think that people would be worried about being arrested. So not having LDCs (considering the relative size as well) not showing much impact as the figures are not really that different to before the clubs closed.

However Sweden the wonderful scandinavian model like WtAF

Sausageeggbacon Wed 07-Nov-12 10:44:52

Sorry missed a zero at the end of the Sweden 100,000

Pi1978 Wed 07-Nov-12 10:48:58

Are the figures for reported rapes or based on some kind of research findings. Huge numbers of rapes go unreported so I would think that figures would be heavily skewed by the likelihood of actually getting a conviction and attitude toward rape victims/survivors in different countries.

You might also like to ask mumsnet to amend the title to include the words sensitive or triggering.

Sausageeggbacon Wed 07-Nov-12 10:57:48

Pi sorry have asked mumsnet to amend the title. The figures are reported crime, but if the main reason for not reporting is fear of reprisal doesn't that apply in all cases?

KRITIQ Wed 07-Nov-12 11:01:27

On what evidence do you state that the "main reason for not reporting (rape) is fear of reprisal?"

HesterBurnitall Wed 07-Nov-12 11:18:35

Without including percentages of reported vs non-reported rapes in each country the figures are meaningless in terms of comparison.

When did Iceland ban LDCs?

LoonyRationalist Wed 07-Nov-12 11:25:55

You would need to look at the likelihood of reporting a rape too. It could easily be that a greater percentage of rapes are reported in Sweden.

For example (made up numbers below)
UK 2000 rapes per 100k, 20 reported so 1%
Sweden 1000 rapes per 100k 50 reported so 5%

CaseyShraeger Wed 07-Nov-12 11:40:40

Also, bear in mind that (as the Assange case has shown) Sweden has a wider definition of "rape" than most other countries. So on that basis you might expect higher figures because some of the Swedish rapes would be sexual assault or no-crimed in the other jurisdictions based on the same state of affairs.

I would like to see the reporting rates, though.

Sausageeggbacon Wed 07-Nov-12 11:41:41

If was given as "The most common reasons given by victims for not reporting rapes are the belief that it is a personal or private matter, and that they fear reprisal from the assailant" as part of the wiki article

Actually my apologies the ban was legalised in 2010 so will be interesting to see when figures become available for that year.

Just a knee jerk reaction to the figure, when looking at the figures for the world it was the one I least expected to be near the top.

CaseyShraeger Wed 07-Nov-12 11:43:53

If you scroll down on that Wiki article you'll see

"The Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention claims that it is not "possible to evaluate and compare the actual levels of violent crimes... between countries", but that in any case the high numbers are explained by a broader legal definition of rape than in other countries, and an effort to register all suspected and repeated rapes. It asserts that comparisons based on victim surveys place Sweden at an average level among European nations."

MrsBucketxx Wed 07-Nov-12 11:45:00

why woukd ldc have any bearing?

vesuvia Wed 07-Nov-12 11:48:14

I think there are lap dancing clubs in Botswana.

The rate of "recorded" rapes in Botswana in 2009 was 88.5 per 100,000. It increased to 92.9 per 100,000 in 2010.

vesuvia Wed 07-Nov-12 11:58:13

Iceland banned lap dancing clubs in March 2010. Obviously the effect of the ban is not seen in the 2009 UN figures given in the OP of this thread. It will be interesting to see what the 2011 figures are for Iceland.

Are lap dancing clubs banned in Sweden? I haven't seen any evidence of that.

JuliaScurr Wed 07-Nov-12 11:59:44

Casey Sweden's definition is wider than some countries, but as the Assange case showed, their law is similar to ours, but a lot of people believe rape must involve screaming nuns being chased by masked men with knives down alleys.

JuliaScurr Wed 07-Nov-12 12:03:02

there was some rsearch showing rape rose after ldc's opened, but it has been challnged by sex industry supporters

Sausageeggbacon Wed 07-Nov-12 12:28:53

Having dug deeper the EU have commissioned a survey to get to the heart of the matter including the possible standardisation of definitions unfortunately the results aren't due till next year but they are surveying 27,000 women across Europe. If it is positive or negative not sure.

Julia if you are talking Lilith report it wasn't so much challenged it was more or less destroyed as totally flawed.

Sausageeggbacon Wed 07-Nov-12 12:32:51

And I do understandard the reprisals issues when I and XH split I lost 3, what I considered, best friends. They couldn't see any other point other than XH being in the right. The reprisals are not necessarily direct, especially as the majority of rapes are people that are known. We believe works if everyone thinks the other person is a dirt bag. Not so good if they think he is a saint.

WomanlyWoman Wed 07-Nov-12 13:31:14

I don't think comparing rates between countries can show anything. Perhaps a more relevant comparision would be to compare rates in the same country but in different areas pre and post ldc's or in cities with and without ldcs.

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