Isn't it about time we stopped referring to women as girls?

[PosieParker]

I've been thinking about this today and wondering what impact it has on how we view both women and girls. Does it assist the blurring of the age of consent? Or how we reduce women's value by talking about them as children.

And thoughts.

[PosieParker]

I also think the 'boys' absolves men from responsibility.

Stewie have you blogged about 'girl/woman'?

Girls, for me, implies almost an innocent sexuality for women. The ever youthful woman, the girl. It reduces a woman's respect, the girls in the office....

I can't really express it.

[blackcurrants]

Yes, it's about time.

It's PAST time.

It trivializes women and their accomplishments (ref: The police officers killed in Manchester referred to as 'girls' by press and police, when male officers would have been 'heroes' probably).

I also think it blurs the age of consent - if you call 12, 14, 18, 22 and 28 year old human females ALL the same descriptor, 'girl' you are mixing up adult human women with teenage girls - and that's clearly very convenient for those who want to pretend raping children/teenage girls is okay.

I hate it. I used to refer to 'girls nights' and 'lunch with the girls' when I was in my late teens/early twenties, but stopped pretty soon after I realised that none of the men in my age-group would self-refer as 'boys' - they were men. I thought I was a woman - albeit a young one - and so I started referring to myself and my friends as such.

[blackcurrants]

and YES to 'the girls in the office' - 'oh, we'll get one of the girls to bring us some tea' - it suggests that they are junior, unaccomplished, and subservient - even when these are WOMEN, damnit!

I can't abide it.

Happily I spent most of my 20s working in an extremely right-on workplace (US University English Department) where no such language was used, so I've stopped seeing it as acceptable.

[Frans1980]

"Girls" is used a lot by adult women to refer to other adult women.
eg

girls night in/out
you go girl!
here come the girls

[maybenow]

While I agree 100% about the police officers and the absolute inappropriatness of the term 'girls' in that statment, for me personally there was a long period of time when I suppose I should have been described as a 'woman' but I wouldn't have been comfortable with it - generally from about 18 to 25ish.. In france i'd still have been madamoiselle rather than madame... and I would never have called myself a woman or talked about my women friends.

In fact, I still don't feel comfortable saying i'm meeting up with some women for a bike ride or after work drinks.
My DH also wouldn't talk about a 'mens' night' or going out with the men. I think he'd use 'guys' or 'blokes'..

[ParsingFancy]

"I think it blurs the age of consent. "

This.

I've been thinking about it a lot listening to Jimmy Saville being described as into "young girls".

[maybenow]

I am interested in this, do people think that 16 is a reasonable age at which to start to call girls 'women'?

I would feel odd calling a bunch of sixth formers, or even university undergraduates 'women' but I guess that's just conditioning, I could start doing it and if I did it enough then I'd get used to it.

Does anybody here use women for everybody female over 16?

[blackcurrants]

Frans I know - I used to be one of those women. Hence my 'yes, it is about time we stopped'' response.

Maybe I think it is significant that we don't have a 'casual' way of referring to women that doesn't diminish them into children. "Blokes" and "Guys" both refer to adult men, don't they?

I remember referring to myself as a 'young woman' in my early twenties and yes, feeling it was rather pompous and inadequate - but also knowing, very sincerely, that I wasn't a girl. I was an adult who earned money and paid bills, and if I wanted to be taken seriously I had to take myself seriously enough to refer to myself as an adult.

[PosieParker]

Young women is good enough at 16-21, maybe.

Frans. I note that you seem to think if women participate in the prejudice it's not prejudice?

[greenhill]

Personally, I was a 'school girl' but always corrected anyone who said I was a 'girl' once I had left school. I have never been 'one of the girls' or gone on a 'girls night' out. I do not do 'girly' things either.

I alienated a lot of other women, who wanted to remain as 'girls' by saying this

[PosieParker]

Yes I don't do girls nights out, at all and never have. I may have a ladies night though.

[PosieParker]

Am I allowed to post blog links?

[BigBroomstickBIWI]

'Girls' night out' is an interesting one, though, isn't it? Whilst I agree absolutely with the points that have been made, 'women's night out' doesn't really seem to mean the same!

Or what if I was to talk about going out with 'my girlfriends'?

'Ladies' is even worse, IMO. Although I can't really articulate why ...

[GrimmaTheNome]

I'd probably tend to call 6th formers 'girls' - though in the context of school just 'student' might be preferable.

But apart from that - yes, women shouldn't be called 'girls' for all the reasons mentioned.

[GrimmaTheNome]

I only ever seem to go on 'mums' nights out' by way of single-sex events. There's a sad old git solution

[PosieParker]

I was just thinking that I don't do "x night out" I just go out! I may go for drinks with x,y & z but regardless of the fact that they're all women, we don't do the [boak] girls/lads/boys night out thing in this house.

[helpyourself]

I agree. But strangely it's other women who use the word more than men.

[blackcurrants]

DoI I used to refer to my (fresher, uni) classes as "Alright, settle down, y e luminous youth" and "Time to focus, my brilliant mind-hive" ... not sure that's appropriate in a classroom setting, though.

Did foster my 'eccentric' reputation nicely, though [hgrin]

[ConsiderCasey]

DS is 11 and gets regularly referred to as "young man" or "little man". In my ex-line of work it was quite common for male mentors to shake hands with a young boy all formal and call them "young man".

It's a way of bigging them up, encourages them to take charge and be responsible. Doesn't happen with girls. I've never heard "little/young woman" addressed to an 11 year old girl.

[MooncupGoddess]

I totally agree with all of this in theory but have to admit I was about 30 before I really started thinking of myself as a woman rather than a girl. I still find it very hard to refer to women between about 18 and 25 as women rather than girls. I tend to think of younger men as boys too, so I think this is partly to do with the prolonging of youth in our culture generally... but certainly it affects women more than men.