How can we make younger women see how feminism is relevant to them?

[sunshineandfreedom]

I?ve been talking with a lot of my female friends about this over the past couple of weeks and they all think ?a book?, but I wanted wider opinions.

There have been some amazing books on feminism in today?s world that have come out over the past couple of years, but very little aimed at anyone younger than 23 or so (in my opinion, that is).

My generation and those coming after us are growing up being told (wrongly) that feminism is over. I don?t need to tell you about the negative messages and stereotypes society puts forward about feminism, as I?m already preaching to the choir here. My point is, though there are a lot of awesome blogs etc out there that are vibrant and useful, is there a need for something that spells it out to these young women? I know a lot of teenagers and young 20-somethings that agree with all the basic feminist principles but don?t want the label of ?feminist? attached to them and don?t feel confident enough in these principles stand up for them more vocally.

Of course there are some amazing young women who buck this trend but they are vastly in the minority.

I don?t know whether a book would be the best way to do it, though most that I?ve asked this it?s one of the more obvious ways. If you?re 22+ there are some fantastic books and information that we can identify with, but I think there?s definitely a gap in the market for something that spells out, in a friendly and non-patronising way, exactly why it?s okay to call yourself a feminist, why ?the battle isn?t won? etc. to these new generations who are growing up in a world where if anything in certain areas we?re actually sliding backwards...

I?m asking for your thoughts as I?m finding it hard to pin down what exactly would be the best way of going about this and wanted to garner opinions. I realise that this is a HUGE subject, and I have to go do some actual day-job work now, so forgive me if I don?t get back to the thread as soon as I might like!

Thanks

[kellestar]

I wish there was a book tbh for the 14+ age group. I get all tongue-tied sometimes trying to get my feelings across to this age group. I've taken a break but I used to be a Guide Leader and trialled a resource quite a few years ago for HQ that tackled the feminism topic [it never went on to being issued though] and feedback was mixed, I thought it was dumbed down a fair bit, but was probably a good starting block to introduce them to the subject and they could expand their interest by reading further.

The other leaders thought it was irrelevant to the youth of today. Their argument being that life for women is better now than it was in their youth, they are in their 50's. I don't think they realise that it's completely different and they don't understand the new media [internet] and how it affects the Guides now.

The struggle I think was making it relevant to them and I think being able to discuss it in a group is a good thing, but it was hard with me being in my early twenties and the other leaders being in their 50's to try and make it relevant without being patronising. Peer to Peer education is brilliant and have seen it work really well and it opens up the chances for discussion.

[sunshineandfreedom]

Their argument being that life for women is better now than it was in their youth, they are in their 50's.

That's what I heard a lot of growing up.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

[lastnerve]

I'm a young person (early 20's) perhaps also focusing on countries that are not very progressive is a good idea. It shocked me to find out about countries where even basic equality isn't met.

[MooncupGoddess]

I think that identifying as a feminist is a secondary point, to some extent - of course I wish all women identified as feminists but if women stand up for themselves, don't let men get away with things on the grounds of their sex, expect equality in the home, fight gender stereotypes, feel able to be ambitious etc etc then that is much of the battle won.

The problem is that it is so easy to be ground down by societal pressures without noticing, particularly when it comes to stereotyping, double standards, objectification of women etc etc. And feminism is a good way of gathering opposition to all of these problems under one roof.

Actually the fact that life is better for women now than it was 40 years ago should be an argument in support of feminism - since it is feminism that brought about the changes. So maybe we need more history so that young people understand which battles were (mostly) won in the 1960s and 1970s, and which are still being fought today?

[MooncupGoddess]

And yes totally to lastnerve's point about countries where women don't have basic freedoms/opportunities. An international perspective is really valuable and makes people realise how fragile women's advances are.

[namechangeguy]

Perhaps start by asking why they feel it isn't relevant.

[messyisthenewtidy]

I think that focussing on the situation in other countries is a good thing because it shows where our own society has come from in terms of attitudes and that such attitudes are still simmering beneath the surface here.

Personally I think the biggest thing affecting young women is the sexualisation in the media that seems harmless but affects how girls see themselves as well as the double standards imposed upon them by their peer group. The problem is that for teenagers being approved of by boys is so important and so a lot of them might see feminism as a huge buzz kill.

[EclecticShock]

I agree with mooncup. Identifying as a feminist is a secondary point. It's only a label and not one many young girls would want. Standing up for themselves and women in general is a better way to approach it.

[messyisthenewtidy]

The fact that young women don't want to identify as feminists is part of the problem IMO because it's a result of the bad press given, which is in turn a result of the backlash against and general resistance to the advances of feminism.

[EclecticShock]

Feminism has a bad reputation in some ways because of the extreme ideology some strands represent and the lack of knowledge of other strands. Plus maybe young women dont really understand how it affects them as the theory is so far removed from real life for most 20 something's in this country. It needs to be more open and practical IMO. Younger people might read something they don't agree with that comes from a respected feminist and decide its not for them. At the moment the term feminism is too focused on theory rather than action.

I really don't think the term is important, I think all people should be made aware of equality in general and how this affects women.

[messyisthenewtidy]

I don't think that's it. Not for me anyway. I'm not denying that I have read some feminist literature that has made me feel uncomfortable. But the real reason that I tried (unsuccessfully) not to identify with feminism during my 20's was because I was aware of how unpopular it was and that was without knowing any of the ideologies/main writers. The word "feminist" was an insult and i was very aware that if I did want to express pro feminist theories I would have to balance it with assurances that I didn't hate men.

[WilsonFrickett]

I think there needs to be a way to help people make links for themselves - but also agree with others that the identification isn't that important.

For example, I 'came back' to feminism fairly recently.

1. through reading posts on here that challenged me
   
2. through membership of the White Ribbon Alliance, which I joined after having my own terrible birth - I then became very interested in maternal health in general and in developing countries in particular
   
3. through raising a boy and hearing a lot of negative 'boys will be boys' chat and looking for a way to challenge that.
   
   Suddenly the three things came together and I remembered I was a feminist.
   
   Now, clearly I'm not the target audience you're talking about but that sort of joined up approach, which targets ishoos that the particular age group may find relevant and helping them find the feminist slant to them, may make sense.
   
   Sorry if that isn't the clearest post in the world!

[exoticfruits]

I think that you have to stop lecturing them and telling them what to think.

[exoticfruits]

There is nothing worse than someone trying to 'educate you'-it makes me want to think the opposite.

[BedHog]

Changing the label might help. I've never liked the word 'feminist', I think it smacks of 'them and us' 'boys vs girls' etc. Plus there's the negative hairy-legged man hater connotations. I've always preferred to think of myself as an 'equalist' - I'm not sure if that's even a proper word but it's one I've used to describe my beliefs and hopes since I was about 14.

[EclecticShock]

Agree bedhog.

[EclecticShock]

In a way feminism is an extreme of equalism, people may take time to travel along the spectrum and can't be rushed IMO.

[EclecticShock]

Also, how much thinking did you really do in your twenties? There's much more I be getting on with. Many women only discover feminism when they have experienced something that's made them look into it or when they have time to reflect on their lives. In my twenties, I was working all the hours god sent and partying. No time to think unfortunately. I was trying to make something of myself.

[MooncupGoddess]

People on here (and indeed in real life) always talk about these extreme man-hating feminists that put everyone else off, but really they are rare to the point of non-existence in my experience and I can't help feeling they are a straw man perpetuated by our culture to discourage people from interest in proper feminism, which as this board (and even more so the Relationships board!) demonstrates is very, very relevant to women's everyday lives.

I'm really not convinced that hairy-legged man-haters are the problem here (and what on earth is the problem with hairy legs anyway?).

[EclecticShock]

No one is saying anything about hairy legs :). In popular culture, you only hear about feminists who have strong opinions. Other feminists fighting for equality don't necessarily represent themselves as feminists straight off.

[EclecticShock]

I think it's the label people don't identify with but they probably identify with some of the principles. My partner believes in equal rights for women but he wouldn't label himself as a feminist. Same with my dad or mum or many of my friends. The label is not important. Equality is.

[MooncupGoddess]

I spent many years myself saying I just wanted equal rights, so I can entirely understand where people are coming from. The reason I now call myself a feminist is that it is women as a class who are discriminated against, and therefore it is women I want to support and focus on. People working for black/gay/disabled rights never get criticised for not calling themselves 'equalists', so I'm not sure why feminists do. (Well, I am sure - it is part of the continuing insidious societal prejudice against women who assert themselves.)

[WilsonFrickett]

Eclectic I did masses of thinking in my twenties, ta. In fact I was at my most socially aware in my teens and twenties. Mortgage, career, marriage and kid take up far more head space than partying and working all the hours god sent ever did. I think we do young women a disservice if we think they don't have time or inclination to think about things like feminism.

[EclecticShock]

Wilson, I see your point but If you look at the facts...