Handling men's attitudes on forums.

[truthisoutthere]

On several boards that i post on there is often horrible language used in talking about women. I hate it. I'm fed up with it but don't know how to argue back. I could simply stop posting but then i feel like the chance to challenge and re-educate the aresholes alpha males is being missed. Also I resent being made to look so sodding humourless.

How do you deal with women hating language and still look witty and clever.

[enimmead]

Have a look at this.

Sexual harassment on video games

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18280000

I think the anonymity of the internet allows people to say things they would never say in real life.

Maybe it reflects real attitudes people have but have never been allowed ot say.

It's a horrible world.

[chibi]

really, i don't know. i don't know if there is any way to 'win' here .

despite the fact that i know that one of the goals of such language is to shut women up, i can feel my energy draining through the soles of my feet at the though of constantly trying to confront and challenge it.

i wonder at the wisdom of trying to argue with people who don't recognise my humanity.

good luck

[chibi]

i don't know about attitudes which people have but have never been allowed to say. certainly the men who shout shit from cars/vans at walking women, ake sexist jokes at work, tell women to 'calm down ear' in the mother of all parliaments or suggest that they are upset because they are 'frustrated' (same) don't seem to bothered about sharing

[chibi]

not to mention the colleague at work who informed me that if you 'put your goods in the shop window, expect them to be looked at, and if you put them on the pavement, expct them to be felt'

barf.

[enimmead]

chibi - that's not good.

[chibi]

no kidding. if there is a huge social taboo against saying things like that, or just generally helping to create a hostile environment for women, i must say, i am prety unaware of it

there is rather a big social tabo against speaking out against it - you are humourless, a killjoy, take things too seriously, come on luv, or worse.

[truthisoutthere]

I'm just fed up of the constant objectification. And the chat of paying hookers, all by really normal sounding men (most of the time).

[chibi]

i don't blame you. that is gross.

[CardgamesFTW]

^no kidding. if there is a huge social taboo against saying things like that, or just generally helping to create a hostile environment for women, i must say, i am prety unaware of it

there is rather a big social tabo against speaking out against it - you are humourless, a killjoy, take things too seriously, come on luv, or worse.^

Yes chibi. When you are woman protesting sexism, you are not even "allowed" to say what you think even on the net. Most big sites are male-dominated, and guys feel free to make terrible, misogynist comments - knowing that they will probably only get a lot of "thumbs ups" for it. Just look at Youtube.
Ideally, when a guy makes some horrible commentary about female people everyone else would react with "that's not ok" and thumbs downs or whatever. But the bros don't react like that, they just cheer each other on.

[CardgamesFTW]

And OP, I can relate. I have left forums because of this.
I'd like to talk about fun hobbies/fan stuff without having to see guys making "jokes" about hookers, wife beating, rape, and underage girls. Over and over again, often completely unchallenged. While those "jokes" makes me feel all cold and sad inside, they seems to think that stuff is hilarious. Yay! Bonding over misogyny!

[AbigailAdams]

I too can relate. It is really difficult to counteract. Tis just "banter" , that euphemism for sexist shit.

Tbh raise your head above the parapet and it is liable to be shot off. This us definitely an area where men should be challenging this crap.

[chibi]

fucking banter

i used to always think of hepburn and tracy, witty repartee, etc etc when i heard that word

now i realise, that, to paraphrase orwell, 'banter' is the equivalent of an arse farting in a human face, forever

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

'Banter' makes me think of public school boys who haven't grown up, or drunk students trying to pretend they're avant-garde.

I can't remember who said it first on here, but someone a while back was saying how feminists get called prudes and humourless, and prude comes from the same root as 'prudent', or wise, so why don't we take it back as a good thing? I don't know why but that idea makes me feel better about not worrying about being 'clever and witty'. Why do I need someone immature and ignorant enough to crack sexist 'jokes' to think I'm witty or clever? If they did think so, I'd probably be doing something wrong!

[BonnieBumble]

If it's on fb, I challenge it, I feel comfortable doing this because it's either a fb friend or a friend of a friend and most of the time people respond fairly reasonably as it is not anonymous. I did receive one threat from a teenage boy (wasn't to do with gender).

On other forums I stay away and ignore. There are some seriously fucked up
people out there and life is too short to engage with them.

[JuliaScurr]

We could popularise a standard response along IPOAT style? TWWOT? Tragic Willy Waver On Thread

[enimmead]

This is a quote from a friend of mine on Facebook,

"The heat is on, the skirts and shorts are up, and the crop tops are out. Just LOVIN' it girls, just LOVIN' it. xxxx."

"It did my heart good to see someone cute and fit in Coney street this morning.xxx"

"It was fab seeing the yummy mummies leaving St Pauls in their summer tops yesterday at 3.30. xx"

I did challenge that but I don't think he took it seriously. In fact, his comments got some likes.

His response "Girls. Jealously is invariably a sympton of neurotic insecurity.x"

How do you handle that?

People on FB and other forums say what they want to because it's so easy. They do not think how they come across.

I have challenged him plenty of times in RL as has his partner.

[JuliaScurr]

sexual harrassment and objectification of women is invariably a symptom of sexual inadequacy

[FeministPixie]

Give us a link, we will invade the forum, pretend to be male, and tell them to get back to the stone age. don't make the link active, though as clicking on the link will make it obvious where the traffic is coming from. Copy-pasting the link hides this.

Unless launching a troll attack from Mumsnet to another forum is against the rules, of course, if so, PM me and I can see what I can do, from another forum I visit.

[FeministPixie]

It's sneaky, but can also be kind of fun.

[BasilBabyEater]

I think the only way to deal with it, is to have a male monicker.

Sad that women are still having to do online, what George Eliot/ the Brontes had to do to get published and taken seriously.

[TeiTetua]

There is another way to deal with it, to have a moderator who's willing to step in, or at least a referee who can be called on, as Mumsnet does. And for some of these guys, if they were told to watch their manners or get out, they might prefer to leave. In the long run, maybe that would cost the group some of the spark that would keep the talk interesting. Or would the civilized people enjoy it all the more?

[CardgamesFTW]

If some people find misogyny the "spark that would keep the talk interesting"...then it's really sad.

[EssentialFattyAcid]

I have found that there is far far less of this "banter" in my workplace then when I started work 23 years ago

I always felt uncomfortable with it growing up and I think that my 12 year old dd has much less of it to deal with now - no shouting "compliments" from building sites etc anymore

I guess the more people challenge the language the better

[enimmead]

I've just been shouted at - 5 teenage lads who felt they had the need to criticise my hair - just because I let it airdry after the gym and am growing it out so it looked messy.

But I do think there is less banter - but I do work in a pretty much all female workplace :)