The notion that a woman cant be sexist?

[HillsnSpills]

I hear some feminists state that a woman can't be sexist? Where does this idea come from, and is this a widely held view?

[VashtiBunyan]

I've never heard a feminist state that. Where have you heard it?

[KoPo]

Probably on here. I have heard it said on here a couple of times but its probably not a widely held viewpoint.

[VashtiBunyan]

In what context KoPo?

[KoPo]

Literally stated "You do know a woman cant be sexist right?"

I think that was the most recent example I can think of. And no it wasnt in a tounge in cheek way. Or joing or that matter.

[KoPo]

I am curious though OP ..... Is there a purpose to this question or is it an excuse for a little feminist bashing?

[madwomanintheattic]

Please link. Sounds like bollocks or that you have completely missed the ironic context. Or that you have mistakenly attributed the epithet 'feminist'.

I know no feminists who would make such a comment. Is it possible that you misunderstood? Or was the conversation about making choices in a vacuum, and women being inculcated into the dark arts of misogyny against their free will?

[thechairmanmeow]

i dont think many people would say women cant be sexist, however.
when women complain about injustice they are nobley fighting the cause against the tide of patriachy, when men point out some inequality they are just being all whiny-arsed about teh poor little menz!

[BoneyBackJefferson]

from memory the last time "isms" where discussed on here -MN not FWR- (it was on a thread that went off on a tangent) the point argued was that in order for the "ism" to stand there had to have been a form of oppression.

blacks can't be racist to whites because white people are not oppressed
women can't be sexist to men as men haven't been oppressed etc.

[TheWomanFormerlyKnownAsSGM]

I think its very difficult not to be sexist [or racist or homophobic or disabilist] in a capitalist-patriarchy which is predicated on the oppression of people for these very reasons. I don't think women oppress men in the same way that I don't think Black people oppress white people. Oppression requires a structural, constructed set of political, social and cultural mores that deliberately exclude, punish and other those who do not fit the required norms.

It is perfectly possible for women to internalise the misogynistic discourse in our society and behave in a manner which is sexist. In many ways, it is much easier to internalise the oppression rather than fighting daily against the structural misogyny because the punishment women receive for not playing the Patriarchal game is immense.

[Xenia]

I am always telling the housewives they are sexist as there is no fair discussion with their husbands about who stays at home. They just want to live off male earnigs for life (whilst doing very little once the children are 3+) and then take all the money they never earned on divorce and deny contact with the father on a fair basis. Of course women can be sexist.

[TheWomanFormerlyKnownAsSGM]

Xenia - I'm sorry but that post is just a giant pile of crap.

[KoPo]

I'm wondering where the OP has gone?

If you want to start a debate about something then please stick around and contribute.

[KoPo]

Having just searched for some of your previous contributions Hills. I noticed that the last time you came onto FWR to post it was to tell us feminists just how whiney and moany we all are.

Im out of this thread

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

There was a debate a while ago (maybe the same one boney refers to, thoug I'm not sure!), where people drew the distinction between sexism and misogyny/misandry.

The argument was that sexism can be directed by many people to many people - it is a form of prejudice which, as kim says, could cover a wide range of attitudes, from people who want to reinforce gender stereotypes, to people simply dislike one or other sex.

In that context, I think women can be sexist and I did a quick search, but unfortunately could not find the posts in which someone in FWR had said women can't be sexist. Of course, I may just not have found it.

OTOH, I'm not sure women (or anyone) can be misandric, because to me that implies a whole social structure we just don't have. Is it possible the OP was using 'misogyny/misandry' and 'sexism' as synonyms - which is how they're often used - and that is where the confusion comes from?

[Xenia]

TheWoman: I am happy to debate those issues I raised such as the sexism that seems to mean that men who want 5 years out of work whilst their wife works full time find it much harder to get than vice versa and the sexism of many post divorce childcare arrangements but it is better to debate these things than simply disagree with them. Plenty of feminists lobby for fathers' rights on divorce. it's a really important issue. It's by getting men into the domestic sphere on a fair basis that sexism is stamped out. Long term it benefits women if things are fair at home.

[HillsnSpills]

Here

That is one example just so ppl dont think I am talking complete shit.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

I can see the title of the thread and I can see the debate is about gender discrimination. I wouldn't agree with the OP, I don't think. But I don't see where in the OP it says women can't be sexist?

[HillsnSpills]

Not in the op in a post about 12 way through. I got bored with trying to find the other examples.

[madwomanintheattic]

Time of post?

[meditrina]

I do not see time of post, or other extraneous detail, to be relevant to the content.

[madwomanintheattic]

Er no. But it helps you look it up, rather than wade through a thread... And if even the op in a subject of her own choosing got bored looking, I couldn't really be arsed to try and find the needle in a haystack myself.

Tis all fine though, I won't bother. I'm secure enough in my own pov regarding 'sexism' and feminism that I don't need to discuss it with an Internet sprite.

[madwomanintheattic]

Lrd, I think the op got mixed up a bit with Kopo, who said she's seen feminists on here saying women can't be sexist.

I think the current trans thread has similar ish content, re 'isms' only being 'real' if oppression occurs. Which isn't how any (for example) equal rights org would see it, but hey.... I assume this is similar.

[Krumbum]

Do you mean sexist towards men? Or sexist towards women? I think many women are sexist towards women and have absorbed all the patriarchical ideas that surround them. Patriarchy is perpetuated by women as well, women who are unaware and trying to live their lives under oppression as best they can. All people would benefit if they were better informed and therefore would be less sexist.

[BasilBabyEater]

Women can have sexist and misogynist attitudes and in fact it would be very surprising if they didn't have a few, given that our culture is full of them.

That is not the same as upholding a whole system which says that their humanity is not quite as real as that of men by making sexist remarks or behaving in a way which ensures that women are put in their place.

If I talk down to a male colleague or patronise him, I would be seen as a nob; if he does it to me, no-one notices. So yeah, I can try and be sexist in the same way as a man, but it's not going to have the same impact on him, that his sexism would have on me.

That's sexism.