How do I respond to this statement?

[Memoo]

"feminisim has done so much damage to men"

This was said by a friend of mine. I changed the subject rather than challenge her but I've felt annoyed about it ever since.

Im reading everything I can on feminisim at the moment and have learnt so much from this board. I can usually articulate my point on most areas of feminism but this attitude stumps me because I don't even know where to begin. Obviously in day to day chat I can't spend an hour explaining to my friend how wrong she is so how do I condense it into a few sentences?

Apologies if this is the daftest question ever.

[alexpolismum]

I would say "Can you give me some examples of what you mean?" and work on it from there.

[MoChan]

I'd be tempted to blow an ENORMOUS RASPBERRY.

Having fought that temptation, I'd do what alexpolismum said. If the friend can actually come up with some points you can then knock them all down one by one.

[EauRouge]

Yes, I think I would ask for examples once I had finished laughing.

[solidgoldbrass]

Well, losing your unearned privileges, the ones you hadn't even thought about, could reasonably be percieved as damage I suppose.

[Nyac]

I'd also be asking "what sort of damage?"

Perhaps she means something about boys' schooling. That always seems to get wheeled out, along with fathers' rights.

[seeker]

"could you give me some examples?"

[KRITIQ]

It seems a very general, almost throw away statement so actually, impossible to respond to in any meaningful way.

I suppose I would ask what she means by the statement, as in specific examples. Then you could talk each through. If she's a good friend, someone you care about, perhaps you'd consider raising the issue again.

[WhippingGirl]

a woman said that? sigh. maybe the response is....'hmm, yes in one context you could argue this is true but thr flipside is that its made life imeasurably different and better for modern women. its so different that many women today really have no idea how good they have it. '

[Grumpla]

Get some better friends?
Seriously, that's the sort of statement that, along with a bit of casual racism / humorous homophobia would make me seriously question my friendship with someone.

I'm just an intolerant curmudgeon though.

[garlicnutter]

I'd ask what she means, as well. I do think malehood (made up word) is having a bit of a confidence crisis due to the loosening of constrained roles. For the majority of people, growing up into a stereotype is easier than the other options ... especially when your template happens to afford privilege. When feminism loosened the constraints on women, that destabilised the male template somewhat. This process is still ongoing (in fits and starts nowadays, but still) and, in some ways, is tougher for men.

Women were given a whole bunch of messages: You don't have to serve your husband if you don't want to; your work is worth as much as a man's work; you can ignore the killjoys and go out by yourself if you want to, even get drunk; you can divorce; you don't have to get married; you can buy your own home without a man; you haven't got to be a virgin, you can have sex when you like and not get pregnant .. etc. Big fucking changes.

All good for women. And, rationally, good for men because it's not that nice to feel you have to support a family, a football team and a cricket team, are obliged to fight when challenged, must wear restrictive clothing, aren't allowed to act silly sometimes, mustn't seem interested in your appearance ... etc. BUT the liberation of men wasn't explicitly stated, explained or sold to them. They were still being given the old templates. So, yes, it is confusing and could have been handled better.

If she's not talking so much about the subtler impact of feminism on a changing society, then she's most likely repeating reactionary crap based on losses of the male privileges which robbed women of autonomy. That's more of a poor diddums, they'll cope somehow

Do ask her! And post back

[tomwm]

ive heard it talked about in different feminist forums that masculinity is a feminist issue. I tend to agree. Therefore i would embrace her comment, think about it yourself and suggest ways in which it may indeed be the case that feminism has damaged the idea of masculinity. I think from a place of joint understanding you can then both have a more productive conversation about what good it has done for both sexes.

I certainly wouldn't ask her to prove herself, laught or belittle her. Her views are just as valid as yours. Approach the whole thing from the point of view of "I could be wrong".

[dollymixtures]

I'd ask her if she thought the civil rights mvmt had done damage to white people or gay rights had ruined things for straights? I don't doubt that loss of privilege hurts individuals but society as a whole benefits.

[MoralDerangement]

disability rights has caused massive problems too, sometimes when you want to enter a building you have a choice between ramp or steps, steps or ramp, ramp or steps

there is enough deciding to do already, although some people might count themselves lucky to have a choice they are missing The Point, surely?

[tethersend]

You could try squeezing out a few tears?

[InmaculadaConcepcion]

Or failing all that, you could play an imaginary violin?