is this assault?

[allthegoodnamesweretaken]

I'll try and keep to the point here,
I gave birth to my daughter last January, I had been pushing for a while and the baby's head was crowning, when a man (I assume doctor of some sort because he had a white coat on), came into the room, this man didn't even aknowledge my existance let alone introduce himself to me or explain what he was doing/ask my permisson, before forcing his hand up between my vagina and the baby's head. As you can imagine this both terrified me and caused a great deal of pain, I have never before truly begged, but I begged this man to stop hurting me but he ignored me. After what felt like hours, but was probably minutes later, he removed his hand, turned to his female collegue/trainee? and said 'do you want a go?' So then the violation was repeated, then it's a bit of a blur because my daughter was born. I was in stirrups and giving birth so was completely unable to defend myself/move away from them.
AIBU to feel that this was assault? If this 'procedure' was necessary for the safety of me or my child then i would have consented and it wouldn't have been so traumatic. I have been struggling with this, thinking of it as a 'traumatic birth' but am I right to think the issue is more a feminist issue than a birth issue (hope that makes sense). What can I do? tbh I want this man prosecuted. I feel completely violated.
p.s. hope im posting in the right place

[BasilRathbone]

Yes you are posting in the right place.

|This sounds horrific.

Did you speak to anyone about it afterwards? Any of hte midwives?

[TakingBackSaturday]

I'm so sorry to hear about this. It sounds terrible.

Have you spoken to any of the health professionals about it, since?

[ecclesvet]

Perhaps you could request to see your medical records for more details?

[hellymelly]

You can ask for a debriefing-I had one after my first daughter's birth as some things had happened that really bothered me.I'd had a very painful sweep without the midwife asking permission or telling me that was what she was about to do,I would NOT have given consent so was very angry and upset.There were other problems, slightly confusing medical stuff.Anyway,a midwife visited me about 6 weeks or so after the birth and went through my notes with me.It wasn't hugely helpful for me, but I have heard it can clarify situations like yours,certainly you need to know more or you will spend your life going over it.Contact the hospital,ask to speak to your midwife and go from there.

[Nyac]

Yes it was assault. Medical staff need permission from patients for procedures or examinations. If they don't have it, they are assaulting you. You didn't just say no, you begged him to stop.

How awful for you.

[Nyac]

Rape Crisis might be able to help.

[Smellslikecatspee]

YES
YES
YES
YES
THIS WAS ASSAULT!

I am so very sorry that this happened to you and your daughter in my view this is sexual assault, however the law may see it as ?just? an assault. I am an ex HCP and I am very sad to say that this is not uncommon, particular in the area of female health. ( That is treating the person so badly, assuming that because they are a HCP that normal rules don't apply)

You need to find out who this person was.

Prior to any medical exam you must seek consent at the minimum you must get implied consent i.e.: if I approached a patient with a sphygmomanometer (blood pressure machine) and they were chatting to a visitor but pulled up their sleeve and stuck out their arm I could reasonably assume that the patient was consenting to the procedure.

From your description at no point did this happen.

You were assaulted .

[HandDivedScallopsrgreat]

That is horrific. I can only imagine how you feel. Agree with everyone else - assault. As smelllikecatspee says, if you are up to it, try and find out who he was. I can't believe he continued while you were begging him to stop. That is just so violating - bastard.

Was someone there with you who can help clarify? Are you in the UK because there is birth debriefing help, which a midwife or the hospital might be able to point you in the right direction of. Did you have a birthing partner? They may help clarify in your mind and may be a witness if you want to take it further?

So sorry this has happened to you.

[Jnice]

Oh my, so sorry this happened to you

Agree with everyone. Definitely assault. How dare someone do that. Who are these people who call themselves health care professionals and care nothing for the people they work with?

Your choice what to do next. Some kind of discussion with a (kind) HV or counseling maybe?

Wishing you all the best with whatever you decide xxx

[CatitaInaHatita]

:-( I am so sorry this happened to you allthegoodnamesweretaken. How horrible.
Do you have anyone to talk to about this from an emotional point of view? If not I think that the suggestion you call the Rape Crisis line is a good one. I know you are thinking about what you want to do about the incident, but also I also think it will help you to come to terms with it and face any action you want to take with more support.

[catsareevil]

Was this in the UK?

Do you have any idea what they were trying to do?

Was there a midwife present?

[allthegoodnamesweretaken]

Hi, thanks for the replies I was worried I was overreacting but obviously not!
It was in the UK, I had my partner's nan there as he had passed out (not very helpful!) she wasn't told what was happening either but I think in the situation she couldn't really intervene because there probably was some medical neccessity to it. There were a couple of midwives there, it's a bit vague now, but I think there were at least 5 medical staff there in total, they all just stood there and watched and nobody said anything about it afterwards.
I did mention it to my HV a few months ago and she said it sounded horrid and she couldn't think of any reason for someone to need to do that anyway! She did suggest ringing the hospital to see if they had any birth reflections (because I'd asked for it), but she'd never heard of it here, she suggested I get some answers as to why it happened and then get councilling.
I'm a bit worried that going to hospital about it and dragging it all up again will be upsetting, I also think that if I don't get answers/apologies I'll be devastated. Plus I don't think there was any mention of it hapenning in my notes, it did say shoulder dystocia but that was after he'd left. When this all happened the head was crowning and had not been born yet.
Will I be able to ring the rape crisis? In my head it feels a complete violation, but I wouldn't want my call to stop anyone else getting help IYSWIM? I don't know a lot about it, do they have alot of call takers?

[rosy71]

Are you sure it wasn't something to do with the shoulder dystocia? Did they suspect it? Why were there lots of medical staff in the room and why were you in stirrups? Surely there must have been some sort of medical reason. It sounds very strange otherwise.

[catsareevil]

Could you ask your GP to write to the hospital and ask them to go over your labour notes with you?
There might be an explanation for what hapened that could help you feel better. Its possible that there isnt, but at the moment you are left with complete uncertainty about that.

[Rikalaily]

I'm so sorry that this happened to you, no wonder you feel violated. I can't think of any reason why this was done to you, even if it was necessary, they should have asked your permission or if needed urgently, they should have at least explained what they were going to do and why it was necessary. It was obviously not urgent or necessary as he invited the student to repeat.

I have had a hand up there twice while giving birth, the first time was with my first, he was prem and in distress and his head was stuck in my pelvic opening, it was either a midwife manually straightening his head or an emergency C Section. I'd had an epidural and didn't feel it. The second was with my second child during a shoulder dystocia. Neither of these situations apply to you as you were crowning.

I'm not suprised if it's not in your notes, I've found that if they muck up they tend to leave the details off the paperwork

Please call whoever you need to for support, I would highly recommend councilling for birth trauma too, it really helped me to come to terms with my 3rd childs birth which was awful.

[FannyFifer]

It sounds horrific.
It does however sound as though they were trying to turn baby due to the shoulder issue, are you sure head didn't crown then the shoulder was stuck?

The fact you were up in stirrups suggests there may have been a problem.

Request a copy of your notes and take it from there.

[allthegoodnamesweretaken]

The head was crowning but had definately not been born because I remember a while after he had gone the midwife announcing the head was born, I also remember her helping the baby to turn when her shoulders got stuck, the man was not there for the head being born or the shoulders getting stuck. I was in stirrups because I'd been pushing for a while and I was too tired to hold my own legs and push. I'm not contesting that there was probably a medical reason for what happened. What I am angry about it that I was treated like a medical training dummy, not a human being. If he had explained what he needed to do and why, then asked for my permission then I would have probably consented, the issue is not what happened or why, but how it happened.

[scottishmummy]

good grief.thats dreadful and poor poor practice. Did the other staff acknowledge or intervene to reassure you?
get your notes, you can write and request
ask for a debrief with Lead midwife at hospital
and consider complaint if you feel able to


no woman shoule be treated so roughly and and disrespectfully

is it feminist is it birth trauma, well its both

you should seek an apppt with the hospital recall your notes as a start. you medical request notes under FOI and do so in writing

google the hospital and write to PALS and ask the procedure
who can support you with this

[catsareevil]

If it happened the way that you are concerned about ie the doctor without consent or necessity examining you (for hours/minutes?) and then also without consent encouraging someone else to then you are, IMO right to make a complaint. I also think that it would be extraordinary for a midwife to stand by and observe that, and you begging them to stop and not do anything.

You need an explanation of what happened.

[scottishmummy]

access to notes - if you write to Medical records Dept to request and state reason.they may charge a fee.PALS (patient Advisory Laiasion service) can also help you phone and book appt

be prepared you might find it uncomfortable,could someone go with you they will contain medical abbreviations/results etc.support you

you can see them at hospital or photocopies posted to you. may take number of weeks to process

[scottishmummy]

can help you make complaint
do a written letter to chief exec and clinical governance. keep copies
stay calm ,non emotive language.clearly document complaint with dates
avoid inflammatory statements or posting on internet naming and shaming at the moment. wait upon responses

[Aniseeda]

Sounds dreadful OP. Nothing to add other than AIMS have a helpline on their contact us page. Might be worth a chat.

[Diggs]

How utterly awful , i really feel for you Op , something very similar happened to me and it left me traumatized .

Consider contacting these peoplewww.birthtraumaassociation.org.uk/ they are brilliant .

I complained directly to the hospital but wasnt strong enough to persue it fully , something i greatly regret now . Also consider contacting Pals to make an official complaint . Youll be offered the chance to meet with this man or his superviser and get some answers and i would not be fobbed off with lies about it being medically necessary .

It is more than likeley the person he asked if they would LIKE A GO was a student . I was assaulted repeatedly in this manner , i was catheterized , many forced Ve,s, examined up my bottom ,student made many attempts to get a line in my hand , made to squat on bed when i didnt want to , examined vaginally repeatedly after i had given birth for NO other reason than there was a student present , it was a normal straight forward delivery with no complications , student was constantly encouraged to do all manor of things to me . In fact your post has hit a nerve as i recall her being asked if she " would like a go " .

Theres too much of this and its been going on for far too long

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/inspectors-find-culture-of-abuse-in-nhs-trusts-maternity-services-2376931.html