Patriarch/Matriarch culture clash!

[JaxV]

My partner of 7 years (and DD3's father) is 1st gen British Pakistani, and was raised in a very patriarchal family where his mother (who was not 'allowed' to learn english) and sister (who was basically blackmailed into an arranged marriage), where given no voice and no right to an opnion. Dad ruled the roost and his word was 'the' word.

In contrast, I was raised by a single mother and had 2 sisters, no brother, and no male role models atall. I have 3 daughters and no sons.

As a result we are constantly locked in this insane power struggle. We love eachother very much and neither of us can imagine not being together - we are great most of the time, aslong as there are no decisions to be made! I resent him thinking he has the final word, but if I say so I am accused of being controlling and wanting my own way all the time. It seems there is no room for compromise! When we fight he always apologises and he knows what has gone wrong, but when we are in the moment he cant get past thinking I should just nod and agree with him.

I'm not really asking for relationship advice, but would like to hear some opinions from strong women who perhaps have had to deal with this kind of attitude before? How do you maintain your own sense of self, of having a voice and valid opnions, while dealing with a man who has it ingrained in his brain that he is 'the last word' despite how hard he genuinly tries to fight that side of himself?

[thunderboltsandlightning]

If he wants to be in charge all the time you've got a real problem.

It's not really a power struggle, because I take it you don't want power over him - therefore it's more like a war he's declared on you.

His mother and sister sound like they were owned.

[swallowedAfly]

i suspect this is more common and widespread than just in cross cultural relationships. the so called power struggle really just being a struggle to not fall into the patriarchal grooves laid down before us. we can desperately conscious of not going there as an imperative and like your husband men can have a sense of their own authority or something firmly ingrained in them.

i was with a northerner raised by his prison warden father as boss (proper my word is law type) and he was certain there could be nothing worse than being like his dad but god how it was imprinted on him. he could be wonderful but had the most awful temper that was utterly unreasonable and unbendable and pretty bloody vile frankly. he so was chaneling the exact thing he wanted to avoid. he'd try to make up for it afterwards by being totally loving and wonderful etc but it was exhausting.

sorry bit of a random response from me.

[KRITIQ]

In answer to your question, I'm not sure there IS a way to change the balance of power in an imbalanced relationship through force of will. If each of you thinks the other is being unreasonable, it's going to be nigh on impossible to find a common ground that will work all or most of the time.

Swallowedafly's example is actually really relevant I think. Sometimes, I think folks aren't even aware how much parents, upbringing, values of the community they grew up in, etc. have impressed upon the person that they become. For some, even where they consciously want to reject the influences and buck the trend, they can still be drawn to the ideas and behaviours they've known. It's not impossible, but it takes more work that many seem to realise.

Back to you though, the tricky thing is that although you say things are great so long as you aren't having to make decisions, problem is that as you go through life, you have to make decisions all the time. It's not something that can be avoided. So, the problem won't just go away. And, if keeping the relationship together means you feel you have to give in, then you will constantly feel like you aren't being true to the person that you are. You could end up being worn down, powerless and perpetually unhappy. That can't be a good thing for you or for your children. Knowing what the future is likely to hold in this relationship, would the alternative of not being in the relationship be that awful or hard to contemplate? Just a thought.

[TeiTetua]

If there's hope, it might be in having a talk with him when he's not in Patriarch mode, where you'd explain (though of course in his better moments, he already knows) that you're not his mother or his sister and he can't treat you the way they've been treated. And he has to let you say "You're being Pakistani" when there is a disagreement going on, at which point he must shut up and let it drop until he's calmed down. Would he ever agree to this, and even if he says he agrees, would he keep his word when all his instincts push him the other way? That's the question.

Something that might make an impact would be letting him have his own way once or twice, but making it clear that he's meant to notice that you're not "being controlling and wanting your own way all the time". Maybe if he's got some goodwill, he'd recognise and remember that you've gone along with what he wants, and that you deserve the same.

And is there nothing that can be done for his poor sister?

[MsAnnTeak]

Kritiq - Good points about how we are affected in childhood but may not be aware of it's influences. Hailing from a few generations of navy stock, growing up in the era of 'get on your bike' for work, most of the male family members were away from home for periods of time. Men usually handed over control of their wages to the wife, who was in charge of everything and was capable of turning her hand to most things.
The vibe you sensed when they were to return home was interesting, reunited it was similar to a honeymoon. Many were positive, happy, caring friendships. They both seemed to appreciate the sacrifices each was making to make a better life for the children.
Male domestic abuse was rare in the family, childcare, power struggles, division of housework, women being undermined weren't issues. Decisions were based on reasoned argument and best outcome, not who thought they had the right.

[thunderboltsandlightning]

He's not being "Pakistani" though. Men across the world behave like this to the women they are married to. It's based in the idea that men own the women they marry. A possession shouldn't have opinions of its own.

[swallowedAfly]

msann - on my dad's side of the family it was farm labourers with houses that came with the job. the men worked damn hard in the fields from before dawn till well after dark and the women worked damned hard getting meals ready for the workers who'd come in frozen cold and doing the level of hard labour that was required for housework and keeping the fires going and childcare in those days as well as other bits of farmwork like taking in abandoned lambs and the like. no one was cow-towing to anyone and there had to be mutual respect i think - no room or time for arguing and messing with who did what etc and everyone relied upon everyone else's labour.

my mother's family were totally different, dodgy post colonial types living in india for the most part with servants and boarding schools etc.

sexism is definitely classed and gender dynamics obviously tie in massively also with culture and economics and levels of poverty and working lives.

[JaxV]

Thanks for all the replies, it's good to see it from different angles :)

I wont be saying 'you're being Pakistani' though. Thats just....no. I have said a few times 'you sound like your Dad' which seems to do the trick. It is true that it becomes so ingrained when you are raised in that way no matter how much you want to be different. He tries, and admits when he was wrong, and to be fair I am less likely to do that due to my own up bringing lol. We muddle along.

Anyway, lots to think about, thanks :)