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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Rape in literature (warning may be triggering)

186 replies

careyjones · 28/11/2011 14:29

Hi there, first off I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Carey and I'm 21 and just getting into feminism and found these wonderful boards.

I'm hoping to get some feedback from some of the more seasoned feminists on here, (but any opinion is helpful!)

My friend is writing a book...and in the book he includes a section about rape. The basic premise of the book is set in a futuristic world, where people get 'scored' for how well they play by the systems rules, how attractive they are, how many girls they can get. Its supposed to be a dystopian novel and he writes it very well and its funny and intelligent. In the section that I am talking about, he is introducing a character who 'one day realised he was a rapist'.

Now, he writes in quite a surreal way, and he is clearly not painting this rapist character as a sympathetic character at all. But there is something about it that just doesnt sit right with me. And i'm not sure what it is. I have tried to talk to him about it, but I really am quite new to these topics and can't quite seem to articulate what exactly I find uncomfortable about it.

He is a feminist. His mum and his sister were both raped...so he is not some sort of rape apologist.

He said his motivation for writing the rape scene was because he wanted to delve deeper into the MIND of the rapist, as even if we see them as 'evil' people (they do indeed to evil things) they are still people. He wanted to humanise them. Not excuse what they did but understand. And also to show how messed up the society had become, that things like this could happen.

I think my main problems in the scene were

  1. the absence of any female voice. I think its very important to have the voice of the rapist to understand them...but having nothing from the girl...seems oppressive and not constructive. Unless he is deliberately trying to prove this point. In which case he needs to be more obvious.


  1. The idea of 'stranger rape' in an alley way....whereas actually women are raped more often than not by friends or people who know them.


But there may be more. I don't know.


I want to be able to give him constructive criticisms on it...because i think it is so so so important to deal with these issues in the best way possible. We live in a society where rape joke are rife and politicians talk ridiculously about 'good rape and bad rape' so if we have the smallest chance to make a difference through literature/art/politics I think we should do our best to take it.

I'd like to post the excerpt (my friend wont mind, he has told me I can show it to as many people as I want to discuss it...he wants to make it good) I will post it in the next post and I would love,love,love to hear peoples opinions on it.

Beware it is quite descriptive of the rape, so if you are upset by thing like this you may not want to read on.
OP posts:
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careyjones · 28/11/2011 14:32

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difficulttimes · 28/11/2011 15:11

Would he be okay you posting that excerpt on here?

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StewieGriffinsMom · 28/11/2011 15:28

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StewieGriffinsMom · 28/11/2011 15:29

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LRDtheFeministDragon · 28/11/2011 15:31

To be honest, I do not think this is 'literature'. I'm sorry if that is harsh to your friend. But I agree with you, I am uncomfortable reading it (in fact I started skimming it towards the end). It could be he writes badly about rape because after all, if he made the imaginative leap to get into a rapist's mind successfully, that would be quite troubling wouldn't it?

I don't understand why he wants to 'humanise' a rapist? I mean, surely there is enough out there humanizing rapists. What does he think humanizing a rapist will achieve? That is what I would ask him.

Otherwise to be honest, I feel it is voyeuristic/exploitative.

Sorry if that is too simple a response but it is what I feel.

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StewieGriffinsMom · 28/11/2011 15:31

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StewieGriffinsMom · 28/11/2011 15:32

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LRDtheFeministDragon · 28/11/2011 15:33

Btw, if he really wants to understand rape, would he be interested in reading some feminist writings on rape? I think that might be a lot better since we are actually pretty familiar with rape myths and with the rapists' points of view, they're all over the place. What is less usual is to read someone explaining the actual hidden assumptions that underlie rapists' way of thinking.

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LRDtheFeministDragon · 28/11/2011 15:34

Thanks SGM.

It does read that way, I agree. I really don't like it.

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StewieGriffinsMom · 28/11/2011 15:35

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Hullygully · 28/11/2011 15:35

Everything else aside, that is seriously crap.

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PoppyDoolally · 28/11/2011 15:37

I'm not sure your friend should give up the day job.

If there is one thing worse than bad sex in a novel it's bad rape in a novel.

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ElephantsAndMiasmas · 28/11/2011 15:45

He thinks rapists rape because they just really, really want to have sex?

He's not adding to anything that will help women, here, is he. Just drawing another picture of a rape where the rapist is just a "nice guy" or "misunderstood" and readers who like that sort of thing get to have a little thrill out of reading about a girl being violently assaulted.

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Prolesworth · 28/11/2011 15:46

That is vile.

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ElephantsAndMiasmas · 28/11/2011 15:48

"Fate rolled the dice, and in his case they said ?Rapist.?"

That is possibly the worst bit.

Or possible the "it stopped being rape halfway through" line.

Both make me feel physically sick.

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Hullygully · 28/11/2011 15:49

It's just shit really. On every level.

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StewieGriffinsMom · 28/11/2011 15:50

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LRDtheFeministDragon · 28/11/2011 15:52

It is really, deeply shite writing but I'm not sure, TBH, that it is worth anyone's time dissecting the literary failures ... I don't think this man needs to learn to write better, I think he needs to rethink his attitudes in a serious way.

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ElephantsAndMiasmas · 28/11/2011 15:54

Everything in it is to lift responsibility from the rapist. It is basically a list of excuses. Shall I list them?

  • it was his way of dealing with ageing
  • it was because his friends had rejected him, he just wanted to interact
  • implies that he had a sexual urge he couldn't resist
  • fate was to blame
  • he would rather have been "beautiful and delicate"
  • it hurt him "so much"
  • he didn't even get sexual satisfaction out of it
  • labels it as "sex"
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PoppyDoolally · 28/11/2011 15:54

I would also like to add that juvenilia like that which fails utterly to comprehend that rape is a violation borne usually from hatred and desire for power is tantamount to rape porn.

Tell your mate to keep stuff like that in his head. It's insultingly bad.

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maybenow · 28/11/2011 15:55

it's crap sorry.

there's no hate there... it assumes the rape is about wanting sex rather than power and control...

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VeronicaSpeedwell · 28/11/2011 16:07

I read about half of it before I'd had more than enough. He really needs to read a lot more before even trying to write about this (or anything else for that matter).

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ScarlettIsWalking · 28/11/2011 16:08

Really dreadful and so choc full of rape myths I don't know where to start.

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irnbruguzzler · 28/11/2011 16:19

Just what literature needs- another rape down a dark alley

Have you or him even heard of the term 'rape myths'?

Are you the author?

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LRDtheFeministDragon · 28/11/2011 16:22

I must admit I wondered if the OP were the author too.

I'm sorry to be cynical, but honestly, I am a little surprised anyone would be ok with their friend posting large sections of their unpublished novel on a website that both they and their friend have (it seems from the OP) never posted on before.

If you are the writer, you can admit it you know.

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