Do supermarket self-scanners cost jobs?

[notenoughsocks]

Hello all.
Was going to post this in AIBU, but thought I would probably get a more helpful response over here.

I am finding it increasingly difficult to avoid using the self-scan machines at supermarkets. I hate, hate, hate using them becuase I have always assumed that they take jobs from real people.
However I can't seem to get a straight answer on this from the till-workers I ask about it. They all definatley hate the machines and half-imply that they are costing jobs. But more so, they seem to hate working with the machines. They all say that they find it much more stressful to over-see eight machines (which seems to be the standard) than to work at the one till. I assume they get no more money for this either and suspect that over time, their wages might even be driven down because the of the removal of their jobs.

I have come across some counter-arguments suggesting that their is no net job loss as this move is creating more hi-tech, better paying jobs in those areas that create the self-scan machines. But, even if I was to let myself belive this, I would still think that it is 'women's' jobs that are being taken away and replaced by the sort of jobs that men are more likely to get.

Any solid information would be gratefully recieved (I have a slowly forming idea of a sticker campaign or something like it).

[MillyR]

I don't know if it costs jobs, but it certainly seems to cause more stress. The customers get more stressed by using them, so are likely to respond to staff in a less pleasant manner.

The way they operate seems to be primarily based on avoiding shoplifting, so that the machine constantly checks if you have added more weight without scanning it. This seems to lead to lots of errors. They seem to be more difficult to operate than if the customer was just scanning things on a conveyor the way that till operators do. So they're no there to make things easier for the customer or the operators, so what are they there for? Presumably to reduce staffing costs.

I also think that they reduce contact between human beings, which is more of an issue for women who are more likely to have to do the shopping. That is probably an issue for the elderly as well, who are often quite isolated and contact with shopkeepers may be the only people they speak to on some days. The machines are also difficult to operate if you have kids in tow or if you are elderly/infirm and struggle with the buttons, seeing what is on the screen etc.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

I suspect you're right. As an incidental point, I think they are very bad for people with certain difficulties and it's humiliating to say 'no, I can't manage them very well, please help' or to take ages. I'm not sure this is 'feminist' expect in that round here it always seems to be old ladies not old men, but a lot of old people I've seen get really frustrated by the fact they struggle with them and it seems like taking away a bit of independence. But then I'm a luddite.

[Prolesworth]

They must cost jobs (as you say, the checkout operators' jobs which tend to be done by women): it stands to reason, doesn't it. If I were one of those checkout operators, and I were made to not only supervise the self-scanners, but corral customers away from the humans at the checkouts towards the machines, I'd feel bloody resentful, because - once we customers have been adequately trained in using self-scanners - the checkout jobs will go.

I can't imagine that the loss of these jobs will be balanced out by new jobs in self-scan machine development and maintenance (which presumably fall into the general category of 'men's work').

Sorry I haven't got any solid information - just posting to say it's something that has struck me too.

[Prolesworth]

cross posted. That's an important point about the loss of human contact.

[MillyR]

On the other hand I suppose that the purpose of places like supermarkets is to make our lives easier, and if they do things like putting in self scan machines, we can stop using those supermarkets because they are no longer making our lives easier.

I appreciate that isn't an option for everyone, because some people live in places that don't have small, independent shops.

[CaptainKirksNipples]

In my store we have 2 floors with 4 ss tills and 1 person to supervise them on each floor. We put some of the money we save into customer advisors and customers seem to appreciate this. I think from a practical point of view they can serve 4 customers with a few items in the time a normal till with a person can serve one customer with the same items.

As a store we are under pressure to cut costs of everything to ensure we are profitable. Who knows if woolies would still be open had they installed them? Lose a few jobs to save many?

[CaptainKirksNipples]

Meant to say we have around 45 normal tills too

[VivaLeBeaver]

I won't shop at tesco anymore. If you have a basket of food you're only allowed to use the self serve or basket aisles. All the normal checkouts have big signs saying trollies only. I was there the other week and the trolley aisle operators were sat twiddling their thumbs while there were huge queues for people with baskets.

[MartyrStewart]

Where I work we have 28 checkouts and only 8 self service checkouts.

This is not likely to change in the future as the self service checkouts are hugely expensive to install and take a long time to make their money back. Plus from a security point of view they are a much bigger liability

The self service operators are also paid a premium over the checkout operators to reflect the higher responsibility.

I don't think that we are heading towards replacing manned checkouts as customers who do not want human contact will generally use online shopping. The self service checkouts are most often used by people who have nipped in for a quick sandwich and want the convenience of just paying and going.

I also think that self service checkouts won't become more popular because of

I don't know if this is relevant, but in my experience the majority of supermarket management are also female. For example, around 65% of department managers are female, and nearly 70% of senior team are female. I have a male store manager, but both his boss, and her boss are both female.

As I said, this is just in my experience.

[WoTmania]

no idea about them taking jobs away but I hate hate hate hate them. Hate them. And I deeply resent people nagging me to use them. they always go wrong for me, I've no idea what I do but I just can't seem to use them. Detest them!

[blackoutthesun]

yes they do cost jobs

when i had self serve in my store i had to cut the wage budget by 20%

[MartyrStewart]

Blackout - we had to do similar when we first got self scan installed. It wasn't jobs that were cut, but overtime.

Partially thanks to the SS tills, our sales have increased and as well as overtime we have also taken on more staff.

[MooncupGoddess]

They are bloody stressful and annoying - the M&S ones are quite good, but the Sainsburys ones are always telling me I have an unexpected item in the bagging area. It must be hell to supervise them.

But, people have been complaining since the beginning of time that increasing mechanisation costs jobs - yes, to some extent it does, but in the long run it saves the consumer time and money and often the jobs pop up somewhere else (as in CaptainKirksNipples' store). So I don't see this as a valid complaint per se.

[MillyR]

This isn't increased mechanisation though. The level of mechanisation remains the same, it is simply that the person responsible for working that machinery is the customer not the staff member.

[mousymouse]

I hate them and try not to use them. they are impersonal and often not quicker than a normal till.
unfortunately at a boots close to my work, there are only self serve till or the pharmacy till.

have found a lovely independent chemist on route home, which I now use instead.

[notenoughsocks]

Thanks for all your comments. Please, keep them coming.

MartyrStewart. As far as I can gather, you seem to be convinced that these machines pose no threat to the workers well-being, or livlihood. Even though you had to cut overtime, you feel that was more than made up for by the machines having created more jobs later? How did the SS tills increase sales?
One final question. Do you feel that the premium now paid to people who oversee these tills will continue to mainain its value at real rate over the coming years, or whether it will actually, in real terms, diminish? According to the staff I have spoken to, their main bugbear about the machines seems to be that they don't like overseeing them. They don't want that sort of job.

CaptainKirksnipples (ha ha ha - love the name, brings back happy memories of watching star trek as a child whilst my family wondered why his suit always got torn enough to expose a nipple) - I see what you are saying about cutting some jobs to save many, although I must admit that I baulk at the inhuman calculating ring to it. Do you worry about a 'race to the bottom' sort of thing in a bid to remain profitable?

MillyR, I am not worried about increased mechanisation per se. Just that it seems to cut jobs and could potentially drive down wages (it has certainly led to a loss of overtime in some stores according to the above comments) in a sector traditionally staffed mainly by women.

PS - If the general consensus is that this is not a feminist issue, please feel free to re-direct this thread (just read that back. If it reads as someone shirty, it was not intended that way).

[notenoughsocks]

Ooopps - sorry MillyR. Just re-read the thread, and realised you were replying to MooncupGoddess.

MooncupGoddess, from what I gather, the job losses at CatpainKirksNipples store were not entirely made up for by adding putting only 'some' of the money saved into customer service advisor jobs.

[JuliaScurr]

I think it is a feminist issue because it's women's jobs. They're being brought in to our local library btw at the same time as cuts. Coincidence?

[MartyrStewart]

As I said, I can only speak of my personal experience.

Cutting overtime happens all the time, it's the first thing to go when managing the labour spend (obviously). The fact is that increased sales = increased jobs and that can only be a good thing. The overtime may well have been cut anyway for a number of other reasons.

We are located in a shopping mall that is full of 'lunchy' places. We definitely saw a huge rise in the sale of sandwiches etc and the fact that between the hours of 12 - 2pm typically up to 40% of transactions can go through self service on a weekday and around 30% of transactions are 5 items or fewer seems to suggest a direct correlation. Obviously these are general figures, but still quite telling I think.

Doesn't mean I am a fan of the machines themselves.

[leares]

This is the ludite mentality, you can't fight technological advances and to do so would be to encourage inefficiency and damage economic competitiveness.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Indeed, playfulness is a bad habit.

OTOH, being a luddite is totally acceptable.

[CaptainKirksNipples]

Without giving too much away, my store is not one that has to compete with 'value stores', most of our customers are happy to pay a bit extra but demand extra choice and advice and bonus offers.

FWIW Wage budgets are not my favourite part of my job...

[minipie]

I agree with leares to be honest.

By all means don't use them if you don't like using them. (And I agree they can be bloody annoying). But to not use them because they take away jobs is a bit Luddite to me and I'm not sure where that thinking would end. On that basis you could argue that you shouldn't put your litter in the bin because that would take away jobs from street sweepers, shouldn't use the internet because that takes away jobs in call centres and shops, etc etc.

[MsWeatherwax]

I like using them as occasionally I have days where I can't face human contact. But yes, they are used as a way to cut staff and as someone mentioned affect libraries too. In libraries there is often extra information/help/advice given to customers to an extent managers don't always appreciate but which is wonderful for helping vulnerable people. There's no way that could be replicated by a machine :(

[WilsonFrickett]

A librarian is a skilled job which you need a degree to do though. I imagine that physically stamping the books in and out is the least skilled part of a librarian's job, so don't think the self-service tills could have that much of an impact on their jobs. Whereas, a checkout operators job is entirely dependent on there being a checkout that needs a person to operate it...