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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Issues with pregnancy/giving birth

45 replies

HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 01/07/2011 15:00

I am currently 23 weeks pregnant and 40 yrs old. For this pregnancy I have a consultant. Initally I wanted a homebirth but this is looking further and further away. A birth free from medical intervention would be my ideal, after having had an epidural and forceps with DS, severe 2nd degree tears and a badly bruised son. DS (21 mo) had a hypoglycemic fit after birth (after a seemingly normal pregnancy) and as a result they thought I may have had gestational diabetes. I don't know yet if I have GD this pregnancy but obviously that is going to increase the risk of a more medicalised birth. The consultant does not want me to go past my EDD regardless of GD because of my age and the risk of placental insufficiency (although apparently there is no evidence of this - it is just a hunch). A friend of my Mum (a GP) has also said that there is an increased risk of the baby getting its shoulder stuck if I go over term and that could result in 3rd degree tears (DS was 11 days late so it?s not looking good for a natural early birth!). In addition, I am quite vehement about avoiding a CS as it is a major operation and a friend of mine died after having one Sad.

I am beginning to feel a little out of control. I don't know what information there is out there and whether the information I have been given I can trust in order to make my own decision.

I should probably put this in the Pregnancy section or something but I find this area a safe area for discussing matters that affect women. Although this isn't necessarily a feminist issue per say, it arises because I am a woman and pregnant! I would also like a more feminist perspective than I would get in other sections as I do feel it is about keeping control, not having choices denigrated, having autonomy over my body and marrying that with the undercurrent of fear for my baby?s safety - all of which are feminist issues.

So the questions I am asking from a support perspective are
Is having a homebirth just a pipe dream?
Does anyone know where I can go to get information/any support groups or organisations where I could discuss options? Or does anyone know anything about GD and/or being over 40 and giving birth?

From a feminist perspective:
Is it reckless to go against a consultant?s advice or would it ultimately be safer for me as the mother to be less stressed during labour and therefore enable me to deliver as naturally as possible? I suppose it comes down to: at what point should fighting for the birth that I want (i.e. my rights) give way to the medical advice I have been give? I will be meeting the consultant again in about 6 weeks so I will have an opportunity to ask more questions.

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Fifis25StottieCakes · 02/07/2011 09:26

Dont know if this will help. My SIL had diabetes with dc1. She was induced and had an awful delivery as the baby got stuck even though he was induced early. She had to be taken to be put back together down below after the birth in surgery.

She has gave birth a few days ago after being advised to have a early c section. She didnt ask for one but after much thought she went with what her consultant advised.

She said she feels great compared to the 1st birth. She delivered on Monday as was back home on Wednesday morning. She said she made the right decision after giving it much thought. After the 1st birth was extremely sore and it took a few month to recover.

Speak to your consultant about your fears.

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Fifis25StottieCakes · 02/07/2011 09:28

sorry for typos, keyboards sticking Smile, someones been eating crisps again.

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holyShmoley · 02/07/2011 09:37

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MotherPanda · 02/07/2011 09:45

People aren't nasty on the pregnancy board - you may find someone over there who's going through the same sort of thing as you, get a bit more detail than on here :)

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HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 02/07/2011 13:13

Thank you all for replying. Much appreciated.

Fifi that first scenario is exactly what I am worried about. It took me long enough to recover from DS's birth. There seems to be a waterfall affect of intervention so once you are induced other intervention follows. But then obviously I don't want my baby to be so big that I would have problems anyway! And I know my views of CS are coloured by what happened to my friend and I know the chances of that happening to me are extremely low. At the moment the consultant doesn't think that there is any reason I can't deliver vaginally so I am going to continue down that route for the moment.

holeySchmoley - that is really good advice with regards the approach with the consultant. And I didn't know placental function could be measured. That is good to know.

MotherPanda - sorry I didn't mean to sound like the Pregnancy board was nasty! Far from it, there are some great posters on there. In fact after I posted it here I thought that really I would be better off posting in Pregnancy so I think I'll take your advice! It was the keeping control aspect that prompted me to post here.

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Secondtimelucky · 02/07/2011 13:26

From a feminist perspective, have you thought of hiring a doula? Even if you don't want one for the birth, some will do just birth preparation with you.

I think there's something rather great, and rather feminist, about having another women who is there just to talk to you about what you want and how you feel and help you work it out. Although not medically trained, most of them also seem to be great at pointing you to sources of information (e.g. on risks of shoulder dystocia, on home birth, etc) to help you work out what you think. It's a lot of the 'with woman' stuff that 'midwife' is meant to mean, but so often doesn't.

I'm a bit of a stuck record on this as I had a great doula for DD2's recent birth, but it's an honest recommendation. Most are not stuck on a specific type of birth- you could establish at the interview stage that it wasn't someone with a natural birth 'agenda'.

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sakura · 02/07/2011 15:09

Personally, I don't think it's reckless at all to go against a consultant's advice.

In countries such as Brazil and the U.S where the C-section rate is sky-high, maternal mortality rate is also through the roof. I suppose my point is that the system is- how can I put it- very keen on not listening to the instincts of mothers. Do your research. Do what you feel is best.

I live in Japan and a very close friend of mine here was rail-roaded into having a C-section at 38 weeks because her first baby was a breech. IT was too early, the baby could have turned. It might have turned in delivery. She could have found a midwife who specialized in breech births. She believes she was too hasty.
SHe is now 41 weeks pregnant with her second. No doctor here would agree to a VBAC. Not even one. In Japan a natural birth after a C-section is completely unheard of. She knows that in her home country this is not the case at all. So she flew in a midwife from the U.S, who is now living with her in her home, and we are now all waiting for her baby to arrive. She did actually manage to find a doctor who was willing to turn a blind eye and give her a scan and tests.

Well.. to reiterate my point.. Trust your instincts. You might decide to trust the consultant in the end. Or you might decide that what he/she is saying is not compatible with what you have researched.

My friend has been told if she goes to 41+5 she will be booked into having a C-section the next day. She has told me she does not want to do this and is considering waiting to go into labour naturally then turning up at the hospital.

I'll tell you what causes the problems: women not being taken seriously; doctors not listening to women; nobody paying attention to what women know about their own bodies.

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sakura · 02/07/2011 15:11

ETA: she would have to go to hospital after 41.5 because the midwife is due to fly home then, and would not be here for the delivery.

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celadon · 03/07/2011 10:04

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HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 03/07/2011 12:55

Thank you very much for replying. Glad you posted sakura as I always enjoy your posts about childbirth as they resonate with me. I think "trust your instincts" is a good policy to stand by. I have just been a bit knocked by the views of the medical staff I have spoken to which in turn have knocked those instincts. You have built them back up again. Thank you.

Secondtimelucky - a doula is a great idea. I love it! One of my friends last night did offer her services (she isn't medical but she would be a great support and have my interests at heart).

I also thought about finding a midwife-led centre (which was offered when I was pregnant with DS but not now) so I'll question the midwife when I see her next.

celadon - thanks very much for the website I'll check it out now.

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ilovedora27 · 03/07/2011 18:45

Is there no way you would be allowed a water birth at the hospital? I had one and had no medical intervention except a bit of gas and air. The ward was really busy so my husband and I were alone in the birthing room until I rang the bell to say I was pushing. It was a great experience and the second I was in the pool it didnt even hurt much at all. I was glad I got to have a pretty much natural birth, it was in the dark in the pool and I know this is weird but I actually really enjoyed the experience.

Glad I did it at the hospital though as when she came out she wasnt breathing and they cleared her airways and got the doctor in. She was fine after that though but was still glad I did it at the hospital as there was help on hand. I would recommend a water birth to anyone and if it is an option for you it really is fantastic.

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HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 03/07/2011 20:01

Yes I've thought about a water birth. There is no guarantee at my hospital of getting a water birth though. It was definitely one of the appeals of having a birth at home. I could sort out my own pool and be guaranteed of having it!

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Secondtimelucky · 03/07/2011 20:59

God yes, water was amazing. The second I got in my home birth pool it didn't hurt. I loved it, and DD arrived very fast afterwards. Being guaranteed the pool was a big factor in me choosing a homebirth.

If you do decide to go for a doula, I found mine by asking for recommendations on here (on pregnancy, I think). There are quite a few doulas who post, and quite a few of them know other doulas through their professional networks.

Just following up on your comments about shoulder dystocia (shoulders getting stuck), as far as I know that's an increased risk with GD, because of increased size. I wasn't aware that being overdue was considered a risk factor on its own, so you might want to check that out. I wouldn't particularly trust GPs on that automatically - my friend who is one told me I shouldn't have DD1 in water (i.e. I should get out for the pushing) because all the babies she saw actually born in water came out blue and floppy Hmm. Didn't get a waterbirth with no. 1, but for different reasons. Also as far as I know, if should dystocia is a risk, unless you are going for a section, you are best off being as unmedicated as possible (i.e. no epidural) because things like the Gaskin manoeuver involve getting you into specific positions to widen the pelvis. [Disclaimer- I am not an expert and have no medical training. Just my two pence worth]

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HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 03/07/2011 21:19

"Just following up on your comments about shoulder dystocia (shoulders getting stuck), as far as I know that's an increased risk with GD, because of increased size. I wasn't aware that being overdue was considered a risk factor on its own, so you might want to check that out."

Yes that was what I thought about shoulder dystocia too which was why I was a little confused by the GP comments.

Thank you all for posting btw. I am definitely getting things clearer in my mind for the route I want to take and how to approach the medics.

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falasportugues · 04/07/2011 00:36

hi!

there are 2 issues. homebirth and avoiding a caesarean.

stating you want a homebirth sends a strong message to medics about your independence. whether or not you get it depends so much on how things go... i wouldn't give up saying you want it, but don't count on it, as we are not in control of these things. Someone i knew was allowed to have her husband stay overnight in the hospital with her on the basis that she had planned a homebirth because she did not want to be separated. This just shows that you can be treated differently if you have booked for a homebirth.

a great site with loads of birth stories and tips is www.homebirth.org.uk

Avoiding a cesarean is a different issue, and I think it would be fruitful to discuss this with your consultant and perhaps dig for some stats from your hospital about cesarean rates??? There are things you can do to avid intervention..... and i know what you mean about the 'waterfall effect' about interventions. being well informed, and prepared is your best defence.

I was sceduled for an induction with dd1. I had read birth stories on home birth website, which informed me about the possibility of a sweep. I had this done at my own suggestion, and it triggered labour within 12 hours. If I hadn't read that story, been informed, things may have been different.

Also on the hb (homebirth)front, I was told definately not to have a hb by my consultant for dd2 4 weeks before she was due, because i was high risk. as the time came nearer, the scan results improved and i was declared low risk again 1 week before she was due, and I did get a fab hb.

I understand your fear, and why you posted on this bit of the site, and wish you all the very best of luck. Luck we need when giving birth, as we are not in control. This is a feminist issue, because the systems created for treating pregnancy and birth medically remove some of the control we might have, but we do also need luck, because birth is traumatic and risky inherently.

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HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 05/07/2011 13:18

falasportugues - thank you for that post. That was lovely. I am feeling much more confident now. I was going through a wobble but I have a much clearer idea of what I want and why I want it now.

And you are right about luck and the inherent risk. I think that is why a lot of women do ignore their own feelings about the birth they want when it clashes with medical advice because they feel it is riskier. And the luck of the draw aspect plays a part too as they feel they probably won't get the birth they want anyway because something will go wrong! That's certainly how I felt a few days ago anyway.

My hospital has a 25% C-Section rate (which I baulked at). Anecdotally, I was in hospital for about 2 weeks with DS and met quite a few mothers during that time. Most of them who had been induced ended up with a c-section. Most of those who went into labour naturally delivered vaginally (me included). One thing that this thread has clarified (and subsequent research I have done since starting it) is that I want to avoid an induction.

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UsingMainlySpoons · 05/07/2011 13:43

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BelleCurve · 05/07/2011 20:06

I think this is a very relevant feminist issue and one where women's opinions and concerns are often over-shadowed. If you have to be induced, I would thoroughly recommend acupuncture beforehand. I was induced due to potential pre-eclampsia and not only did the labour progress really well with no further inverventions, the acupuncture really calmed me down from all these similar concerns.

I really wanted to avoid an epidural (due to side effects experienced by a friend) and was told at 38 weeks that I would have to be induced and that "there was no way you will cope with the pain and will be begging for an epidural"

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vezzie · 05/07/2011 21:15

I had some very good advice on the relevant boards on here before I had dd2. I had lots of conflicting advice from various different HCPs and felt very beleaguered and doom-ridden. Several brilliant posters helped me think things through and gave me the confidence to write a very concise, clear birthing plan. It was very clear about what I wanted but it left room for what I didn't want, ideally, unless it became medically necessary, and I took it upon myself to define what that meant. It really helped me.

On the day I had a great midwife who read my plan, completely understood it, and stayed with me till my baby was born, exactly as I had had hoped. Getting that support in real time was the luck of the draw on the NHS but perhaps you can make it a certainty by hiring a private midwife who is part of the plan in advice and will definitely be available when the time comes.

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HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 06/07/2011 22:10

Thanks for the link Spoons. I have quite a lot of experience with expressing, thankfully. I ended up exclusively expressing for DS for about 7 months as he never latched on. (I could have a rant about lack of BF support post-natal but perhaps I'll save that for Reality's NCT thread!)

Hadn't thought of acupuncture but my SIL is very into homeopathic remedies and recommended an acupuncturist for my sickness during pregnancy so I'll ask about that.

Yes the conflicting advice is so difficult vezzie. I pooh-poohed a birth plan a bit with DS, basically because I didn't know what to expect so just wanted to see how things went. I am beginning to get a much clearer picture now so I will be doing a birth plan this time.

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Catitainahatita · 07/07/2011 00:39

HabdDived: I am diabetic and have been pregnant twice. My babies were both tiny. I ended up having two CS although my gyno preferred the vaginal option. In the end DS1 was in distress, he had the cord wrapped round his neck and things were not progressing.
I think you have received good advice will probably get more on the pregnancy board.
I really just wanted to reassure you that if you do get GD and do end up with a CS you will be fine. I know you are worried by what happened to friend, but you have chatted to me on here and we are also friends. It was all ok for me (except after pain relied but that won't be an issue for you the NHS doesn't shut its pharmacies on a bank holiday!).
Finally if you end up with GD I would be ready to talk to you about how to deal with it. It is scary but if you are informed and take control yourself of your treatment you will be fine.

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HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 14/08/2011 21:19

Just to thank everyone once again for thier comments. I had a GTT last week and it was negative - hurrah. So I don't have diabetes. Catita thank you very much for your kind offer (which I completely missed first time round so apologies!).

It haas made the choices I ahve to make much simpler now. I will be seeing the consultant in a couple of week to discuss induction and so will voice my concerns with her too. She is quite approachable.

So thanks all.

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AliceTwirled · 14/08/2011 21:29

Good news Scallops

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swallowedAfly · 14/08/2011 22:02

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