Still in two minds about 'slut walk' but i thought this post was very good

[Sunshinetoast]

here

I have been in several minds about the whole 'slut walk' thing. Didn't like the name, or the idea of reclaiming a term that is so loaded with hatred. But then I know several women who felt inspired to act who had never been involved in active feminism before so that must count for something. (and I know that not everyone taking part is trying to reclaim anything).

I thought the article was thoughtful

dont' mean to post and run but my daughter is waking up...

[snowmama]

Me too, like it a lot.

[TeiTetua]

I think it's better to accept that "feminists don't all agree" about the Slutwalk concept, rather than using it as a method to divide people. Because there are thousands of women (and some men) involved in this, and some of them are certainly calling themselves feminists. I can't see how it's helpful in any way to tell them that they can't possibly be feminists, or that they're foolishly selling out to patriarchy, if they continue with it. There's something to be said for each side of this.

[Sunshinetoast]

I agree. I don't think they are selling out or nescesarily foolish. I know some very considered and thoughtful women who are fully aware of the arguements against but believe on balance they want to take part.

Feminists won't always agree. I think it is more helpful to start with the assumption that other feminists have reached their position in good faith even when I disagree profoundly with them. And on this issue I am really conflicted. But in the end I want to challenge the whole idea of 'slut' rather than reclaim it.

[Sunshinetoast]

So I might argue strongly against what someone says and do my best to explain why I think some positions are difficult for feminists to hold (not this one actually) but I won't criticise someone for not being a good feminist. I'd rather be part of a broad and inclusive movement than one which aspired to a perfection that few can attain

[Sunshinetoast]

I think that there are enough clearly identified feminists taking part and that the marches themselves are an attempt to challenge a women blaming attitude to rape to see the marches as feminist at least in part.

Plenty of women don't call themselves feminists who do feminist things and think feminist thoughts. As I've said I'm not comfortable with a lot about slut walks but I think the anger they were inspired by is definately feminist

[blackcurrants]

I find my self conflicted. I'm delighted that rape-victim blaming by police (and others) is being called out in this large, public, determined manner.

I'm pleased it's involving lots of people who wouldn't necessarily identify as feminists, too, because I think it might be a handy gate-way drug into more feminist activism.

It's not my place to say what is and isn't feminist about this - where the lines of exploitation lie, and which words can be reclaimed, and by whom - because I don't have the answers and I don't have time to give it enough thought, what with the baby crawling up my leg.

So I remain conflicted, and I return to my original reaction which is that I am VERY glad that a wide range of people are saying "blaming victims of rape is not ok."

[SybilBeddows]

as far as I'm concerned, Slutwalk is a bunch of non-feminists (and probably some feminists too) supporting, in a non-feminist way, something feminists also support.

so I agree with the author of the article: good luck to them but I'm not going to get involved.

[charitygirl]

Thanks Sybil, I think that's pretty spot on. Will be using that!

[Sunshinetoast]

There is an interesting discussion here. The discussion thread after the main post also interested me - there are clearly some slutwalk groups in the US who seem unhappy with the way the discussion has been framed and don't buy into the 'we are not feminists, we are sluts' position.

[BarryShitpeas]

Tanya Gold has an article in tomorrow's Guardian about the Newcastle walk.
It's on their homepage now.

[snowmama]

Reading that article has re-triggered a tiny thought I had when we first discussed this, but I dismissed as irrelevant but on reflection I think may not be.

Bear with me as this is not a fully formed thought. The article and the pictures I have seen of slut walk do not actual present 'sexy' in the patriarchal lap dancing, skinified, plumped up breast, slick la senza lingerier image of sexuality (and i am not in anyway suggesting that this version of sexy is 'good').

It in fact suggests a much more higgly piggly, messy, chaotic version image, with outrageous outfiits and mismatched stockings....the kind of experimentation that teenagers and young women are really denied in this super groomed, sexualised, pornified age. Anyone else old enough to remember spending their young teenage years with madonna lace gloves, neon sweaters, snug scarves worn as mini skirts and bits of lace sticking out of our unruly hair ? (or is that just me ) We were a fricking mess, but we had the space to try things out safely. And actually a part of me likes the chaos (leaving aside the 'slut' reclaiming argument)

I am not sure it is as simple as they are 'sexy so noticed', so to speak, and I still think that sheer scale of response to these fairly minor protests, on all sides just to me suggests there is something around female sexuality and sex we need to engage with.

[dotcate]

I think the 'two minds' about the slut walk -is an interesting point in itself -
I confess to an o dear is this the way to address overt sexism?
Ceasing to worry about the term decades ago -and refusing to grapple with
tabloid sensationalisation of rape and abuse issues -I remained the bystander
and photographer until - I saw protests against bunny girls on Friday and thought O NO-
The same old devices creating the same old divisions - Looking at the images from the weekend - I think- good for them -at 44 - I am silver enough to belong to the old hardliners -it is refreshing to see young women take a stance on their
own issues in their own way for themselves...

[snowmama]

I don't think they have to present sexy. That was my point, it was the chaos and inviduality that appealed to me- as opposed to sexy. My point is girls do now have the same level of space to play with fashion and image - as it is all sexualised.

I do think that ability links to be free links to sexuality (for both men and women) but that is not at all the same as 'presenting sexy'.

[MadameBoo]

Oh dear :(

www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/yasmin-alibhai-brown/yasmin-alibhaibrown-how-does-dressing-like-a-slut-help-protect-women-2296776.html