Abstinence classes for teenage girls - please let this not become an actual law...

[steamedtreaclesponge]

Erm.... sorry, what?

I don't even know where to start with this one. How about teaching teenage boys not to pressure women into sex?

I mean, yes, it's important that women feel they can say no. But this is just so, so wrong.

[aliceliddell]

Really pleased to se this, I was just going to post it myself. That Dorries is some piece of work. Not content with her sterling anti-abortionism, ably supported by mad "Christians", she now lights on further means of inflicting misery on us.

[alemci]

I think it is a good thing. Why is it such a wrong concept.

[OldLadyKnowsNothing]

The debate is here and the ayes and noes are listed. Just in case the link fails, or no longer works when it's updated, the "Ayes" were:

Aldous, Peter

Amess, Mr David

Bagshawe, Ms Louise

Baldwin, Harriett

Bebb, Guto

Bradley, Karen

Brazier, Mr Julian

Bruce, Fiona

Byles, Dan

Cairns, Alun

Campbell, Mr Ronnie

Cash, Mr William

Chope, Mr Christopher

Collins, Damian

Crouch, Tracey

Davies, Philip

de Bois, Nick

Dorries, Nadine

Elphicke, Charlie

Eustice, George

Evans, Jonathan

Fuller, Richard

Gale, Mr Roger

Gray, Mr James

Hancock, Matthew

Heaton-Harris, Chris

Hemming, John

Hinds, Damian

Hollobone, Mr Philip

Jenkin, Mr Bernard

Johnson, Gareth

Jones, Mr Marcus

Kwarteng, Kwasi

Leadsom, Andrea

Lefroy, Jeremy


Lilley, rh Mr Peter

Lord, Jonathan

Main, Mrs Anne

McCann, Mr Michael

McCartney, Jason

McCrea, Dr William

McIntosh, Miss Anne

McPartland, Stephen

Metcalfe, Stephen

Morris, James

Mosley, Stephen

Nuttall, Mr David

Offord, Mr Matthew

Paisley, Ian

Parish, Neil

Patel, Priti

Pawsey, Mark

Phillips, Stephen

Redwood, rh Mr John

Rees-Mogg, Jacob

Rosindell, Andrew

Scott, Mr Lee

Shannon, Jim

Smith, Henry

Stevenson, John

Stewart, Bob

Turner, Mr Andrew

Walker, Mr Robin

Walter, Mr Robert

Weatherley, Mike

Whittaker, Craig

Williamson, Gavin

Tellers for the Ayes:

Mr Brian Binley and

Dr Thérèse Coffey

[OldLadyKnowsNothing]

And in the interests of fairness, those saying "No" were:

Abbott, Ms Diane

Abrahams, Debbie

Alexander, Heidi

Bailey, Mr Adrian

Barron, rh Mr Kevin

Bayley, Hugh

Begg, Dame Anne

Bingham, Andrew

Chapman, Mrs Jenny

Clwyd, rh Ann

Cooper, Rosie

Creasy, Stella

Cryer, John

Cunningham, Mr Jim

Donohoe, Mr Brian H.

Engel, Natascha

Farrelly, Paul

Flynn, Paul

Fovargue, Yvonne

Freer, Mike

Gapes, Mike

Gardiner, Barry

Gilbert, Stephen

Green, Kate

Hemming, John

Hilling, Julie

Horwood, Martin

Huppert, Dr Julian

James, Mrs Siân C.

Lavery, Ian

Mactaggart, Fiona

McDonnell, John


McGovern, Alison

Mearns, Ian

Miller, Andrew

Morris, Grahame M. (Easington)

Munt, Tessa

Murray, Sheryll

Newton, Sarah

Offord, Mr Matthew

Pearce, Teresa

Raynsford, rh Mr Nick

Reid, Mr Alan

Robinson, Mr Geoffrey

Rogerson, Dan

Rotheram, Steve

Ruddock, rh Joan

Russell, Bob

Sanders, Mr Adrian

Sharma, Mr Virendra

Sheerman, Mr Barry

Skinner, Mr Dennis

Smith, rh Mr Andrew

Smith, Sir Robert

Stevenson, John

Stringer, Graham

Swales, Ian

Turner, Karl

Walley, Joan

Watts, Mr Dave

Winnick, Mr David

Tellers for the Noes:

Kelvin Hopkins and

Mr Andrew Love

[weblette]

I'm just wondering how long it'll take Melanie Phillips to wade in...

As said several times in the Guardian comments, she's a very potent reason for voting YES tomorrow.

[nobiggy]

John Hemmings on both lists?

[bigbadbarry]

Bloody hell there's my local MP on the aye list. Not content with writing utter drivel in the local paper and on twitter.

[BitOfFun]

So he is, how strange for him to be at the centre of something bizarre and controversial...

[Matsikula]

Yikes, some of those 'ayes' don't even have the excuse of being old. Kwasi Kwarteng is only in his 30s (though cultivates the dress sense and politics of someone born in the 30s).

[Matsikula]

And Louise Bagshaw presumably feels the need undo the 'immoral' impact of her racy novels in some way (disclaimer - have never actually read any of them).

[TheCrackFox]

Why don't they teach boys to say "no"? Why are women/girls always expected to have higher "moral" values than men/boys?

[nailak]

coz women are left with the unwanted babies?

i dont et it, whats wron with tellin its ok to say no? it sounds so simple, but at that ae some rils dont have the esteem to do it

[MillyR]

I don't think this debate is about girls saying no to penetrative vaginal sex. From the bit I have read, they are complaining about girls being told it is healthy to engage in any kind of sexual activity, including masturbation.

Why do girls need to abstain from sexual activity any more than boys do?

They are discussing it as a response to the sexualisation of girls, but I don't think the solution to girls being sexualised by porn culture is for girls to have no sexuality at all. It is positively Victorian.

And boys are at risk of developing all manner of issues as a consequence of sexualisation in society. If sexualisation is such a big problem, why don't they have special classes for boys encouraging them to abstain from activities which objectify girls?

[nailak]

imo irls need to be told it is normal to have sexual desires and feelins and these should be fulfilled in a safe manner in a relationship with someone they trust, usin contraception, when they feel ready, at a pace they are comfortable with, that they should never have sex to keep a man, as he is not worth it if he is pressurin her etc

i aree with the classes for boys, it is neccessary.

[Laugs]

From the Guardian: "However, Dorries told MPs the sale of porn magazines in newsagents, and high street shops selling padded bikinis for seven-year-old girls showed "how far the sexualisation of young girls has gone in our society".

I completely agree with this (and publications like Nuts and the Star which are not porn so can be sold at eye-level), but why isn't this very sensible idea the one she is trying to act on? These are things that could actually make a difference. Whereas an ancient teacher telling you "it's cool to say no"...?

[HandDivedScallopsrgreat]

Well it makes girls the gatekeepers and removes responsibility for having sex from the boys.

[Bramshott]

Oh great, my MP is there in the 'ayes' .

Alemci - it's wrong on so many levels because it's just about girls, and it's a throwback to the old attitudes that say that men can't help themselves and women just have to be (a) taught to say no; (b) not allowed out by themselves; (c) covered up. It's saying that women should be the ones held responsible for the actions of men, and is only one step away from blaming women for rape.

That's how I read it anyway!

[AyeRobot]

Nadine Dorries really needs to come on here for a feMNist bootcamp.

I don't have a problem with abstinence-from-PIV sex teaching for under 16's. But I have a massive problem with targetting it at girls. And a massive problem with almost everything that Nadine Dorries says.

We really need to grow the fuck up in this country.

[ohmyfucksy]

Mine is in the ayes too, mind you I didn't vote for him as he is a TIT

[msrisotto]

If only we could indoctrinate enforce invite people here for a feminist boot camp! I'd have a few people on the waiting list for sure!