Revered Motherhood yet wanting equality of opportunity?

[frgr]

Bit of a feminist newbie, but I've been thinking about something based on another thread (here).

(Summary: woman's husband doesn't work, she feels she shouldn't have to as she won't get any help with the house/kids if she works in paid employment.)

As I was mulling the latest replies to the thread, I had a little bit of a lightbulb moment where I've realised why I get so frustrated reading threads like that:

It's because a significant chunk of women, including MNers, place Motherhood as having a higher value than Fatherhood, despite our demands to have an equal footing in traditionally male dominated areas (the professions, equal pay, promotions, safety to walk at night in the dark, whatever). And that's what I cannot reconcile in my head - it makes no sense to say "well when I'm at work I want to be treated the same as the bloke next to me, yet I want certain of the women's domains to be kept as mine too e.g. the ability to be a stay at home parent or always make those sports days etc".

Of course, I'm not talking about something which is more logically justifiable as being a woman's only thing.. e.g. if I take this to an extreme I could argue that maternity rights are nonsense and we shouldn't have pay for women being off. but I'm not -there's clearly a medical need to allow women time off to recuprate and recover from such a traumatic (to the body) event. But...

in cases where things are considered to be in the female domain (childcare, etc) isn't it only right to acknowledge that there are losses to be made as well? e.g. not being able to have the luxury of staying at home as a "right"

Gah I hope all that makes sense, this is more of a brain fart than a truly coherent post. but i'd be interested to hear some thoughts on it, based on that thread, as i've been reading the feminist section of MN for a little while now and wondered what some other (contradictory) thoughts are?

[K999]

If she wants to work,she should. And she IMO should expect her DP/DH to take equal responsibilty of house/children. Raising children should not always be seen as the "mothers" job. It's not.

[scottishmummy]

childcare isnt solely female domain,this keeps women in limited role.the oft touted assumption that caring and domesticity are suited to female temperament/psyche/abilities is erroneous.it plays straight into biological determinism.the myth that mother is inherently,intrinsically and biologically better at nurturing. chuck some bad science at it ,add dollop of alarmist preachy research (biddulph, oliver james,anyone) and you begin to see how a lot of disparate factors are dragged together as wimmins work. see it al lot o ,m.posters play the biological trump card well,when he can give birth then he can stay at home. reinforcing the notion and sense of entitlement that some women feel they should be rewarded and not put upon for raising their own children - back to the op leaving 2 capable adults chosing not to work.one of them playing the but im a mother card

[violethill]

Yes, it does make sense, and I entirely agree with what you say.

I guess many women at the moment maybe feel uncertain about 'where we are' in the process of moving towards equality - though having said that, I guess whatever era one happens to live through, one feels part of a process which hasn't yet completed.

I agree that some women do fall into what you describe - they want equality, but they want it with strings attached! And I think some women do believe there is something profoundly 'higher' in value about Motherhood, yet when questioned about it, they can't quantify or justify it, it's just a gut feeling. It's quite possible that many mothers feel differently to how many fathers do, but to my mind, one isn't 'higher' or 'superior' to the other - they are different experiences of equal worth.

I also agree with you fgr, that there is nothing inherently 'female' about many of the task involved in child rearing. Men can change nappies, play with children, dress them, rock them to sleep etc. The only thing exclusive to women is bf, but even so, a baby can still be fed breastmilk by it's father - and the key importance of bf is the nutritional aspect, which works just as well via a bottle. Likewise, there is nothing inherently 'male' about paid employment. Women can be just as good at being a doctor/lawyer/teacher/rocket scientist/shop worker.....

Interesting thread

[scottishmummy]

its the i am goddess i am mother complex.implied superior knowledge and zen as a result of parenting.manifests as thinking being mum is hardest job in the world.which it patently isnt,but cant tell that to a mum goddess without a list of arduous tasks and how hard done to they are

overlooking fact,that apart from bf,men can also undertake all tasks associated with parenting.gender doesn't automatically render women better parents

just as gender doesnt automatically mean a man can dodge tasks of parenthood with im just a man,that's women's work

gets murky when both genders fall into stereotypical roles and tasks,and cant or wont initiate change.see it on the aibu posts.long list of stuff the woman does for her dp (cook,clean,shop,laundry).whilst he sits on arse.despite both work.put it to her so dont do his laundry etc.and oh no hes rubbish at colour sort,wouldn't manage etc - so maintain status quo by delineating tasks on gender

retreating into and maintaining rigid gender tasks/roles just reinforces stereotypes.

[BlingLoving]

Oh, I agree completely. But have been slammed on here in the past for daring to suggest that if a woman wants to be taken seriously and treated equally in all areas, she cannot refuse to share power in domestic areas. If we want men to give up power and share with us, we have to do the same.

The challenge is that so often neither women or men want this. Men don't want domestic power and responsibility (and I feel they should be forced to take on these responsibilities) and women don't want to give it up.

I like your expression of it as a problem whereby women view motherhood as intrinsically more valuable than fatherhood. How is that different to men viewing having a penis as intrinsically more valuable than a vagina?

[SanctiMoanyArse]

I aagre that apretning can theoretically be done by either aprent and it's negative to see it as a owmen's role (outside the first however long if the mother chooses to BF- expresisng really does not work for some of us!)

But I also think personality comes into it: Dh adn I have bothe been SAHPs / carers: DH will again in a few eyars so I can back on the career bus but I actively enjoy being a SAHP more than DH. So if things were equal we would choose it that I was at home (SN kdis, one of us has to be).

These things ahve to worked out between couples but gender in itself should not be the primary motivator of a choice.

[Goblinchild]

Totally agree with you SM, I went back to work and OH stayed at home and worked pt from home whilst doing the bulk of the childcare. I would have liked to have done that, but I was earning three times his salary and it didn't make economic sense.
And I refused to play the Mother/Goddess card, because it would have sat ill with my principles and seemed too muck like manipulation.
He did an excellent job, with patience and love and no cherry-picking of the best bits. I missed some important firsts, but that's compromise.

[scottishmummy]

personality and disposition are not fixed by gender
there isnt a specific set of skills unique to male or female parents


but for as long as traits and types are subject gender stereotyping there will be inequalities.not so long ago women were considered too emotional unsuitable for male jobs eg military,emergency services. and yet other jobs are portrayed as suited to women eg nurse,teacher. and other jobs as male jobs engineer, finance

[MillyR]

Being a SAHM isn't a right. If you are a single parent, regardless of your gender, you do not have to be available for and seeking work until your youngest child is 7 (the new government might have changed that to 5).


I don't agree with maternity pay. I would only agree with it if all women were paid after having a baby. At the moment, SAHMs, most students and unemployed women are not paid maternity pay. Either all women should get it so that they have a period of recuperation and time to establish breast feeding if they choose, or the government should pay it on a means tested basis like other benefits.