An 'interesting' conversation with my MIL about rape

[thefinerthingsinlife]

I am shocked that a woman who is intellegent believes the rape myths put forward for example "well there are women who go out for a good time" "look at all those women who falsely accuse men of rape" "well if she's drunk what does she expect".

After explain why these views are all aiding rapists and why the patriarchy promote this myths she seem top understand.

But how the hell are we meant to challenge these view when the patriarchy have made these views so 'believable'

[Drizzela]

I had this conversation at a garden party last year with a group of women aged between 21 and 37.

EVERYONE agreed that 'some girls' are asking for it when they A, get too drunk, B, wear suggestive clothes, or C, get to a certain point with aman and then say no.

These are fairly middle class (maybe working/middle class) women most of which have been to university.

I was astonished.

[AliceWorld]

By calling them out when you hear them, just like you did

[PersonalClown]

Dp came out with this little gem.
I nearly smacked him into next week.

[thefinerthingsinlife]

Sometimes I am horrified that people actually believe it though. We don't blame people who are physically assulted, robbed, etc. but rape victims are fair game??

[BooyFuckingHoo]

i was assaulted at xmas in a club, i was driving so wasn't drinking. i was with a group of friends and it happened right there infront of them, the same guy had treid it with them too but i didn't tell my parents about it. why? because i knew the first thing out of my mum's mouth would have been "you see, you need to be more careful"

[TheCrackFox]

When ever someone is droning on about men who are falsely accused of rape I always tell them that a man is far more likely to be raped by another man than he is to be falsely accused of rape by a woman. It normally shuts them up pretty quick.

[thefinerthingsinlife]

That's exactly it Boo, as females we are taught not to accept drinks from strangers, be careful ect ect. Campaigns are aimed at us to be aware, take care, don't take unlicened taxis. Why are we not teaching men not to rape women? Why is it our responsibily to aviod rape?

[BooyFuckingHoo]

that it finer. i know that with the best intentions, my mum would have placed the blame for it squarely on me. i was sober, with a group of friends at the bar in a well lit part of the club, i hadn't even been talking to this man, he just appeared out of nowhere. i asked him repeatedly to move away from me and leave me alone, not to touch me. he continued and after about the 5th warning with him ignoring, i screamed at him and caused a scene hoping to embarass him into disappearing. they must be breeding some new, more resilient type of weirdo though because he seemed to take this as a green light and came back for me. i screamed again and my 'friends' told me i was over reacting . i did everything i could have done to stop him but it still happened and i was the one being told to adjust my behaviour.

[thefinerthingsinlife]

Boo that's bloody awful!

[BooyFuckingHoo]

it was awful and i was so angry with my 'friends' (4 women and one man). they even went home and took the piss out of my reaction on FB. i told them all that i hadn't over reacted at all, they had under reacted. it was interesting talking to EXp about it afterwards, he got angry and said if it had happened while he was there he would have punched the guy, and i know now that no-one would have told him he had over reacted. a man is allowed to protect his possesion but a women isn't allowed to protect herself.

[thefinerthingsinlife]

So true! Although we are forgeting that women are meant to be calm and gentle and need a man to protect us

[HerBeX]

Boo the reason he took it as a green light, is because he knew that the reaction of your friends would be that you were mad to defend yourself, not that he was out of order.

It really is an uphill battle isn't it?

[BooyFuckingHoo]

it really is. i knew those attitudes existed but i was really shocked and moreso disappointed that when it was happening right infront of people they still chose to accept it, as if it is par for the course if you are a woman, you should expect to have to tolerate this stuff. and i agree with you, guys like that are banking on you/ your friends not reacting. that is how they work.

[notjustapotforsoup]

So sorry you had to deal with that, Boo. At least you know that there are people like us on here who would have stood alongside you instead of piss-taking.

OP, it's people like your MIL who, when they are on juries, acquit rapists. That's the terrifying thing. I understand why people like her do it - it makes them feel safer. But it's just so wrong. How hard is it to understand that men need to make sure that the woman wants them to put their cock in them before they do so? And that the men who don't need to explain when they are on the stand, clearly and believably, why they thought that she did want them to?

[thefinerthingsinlife]

That's the scary thing Not, putting it like that it's hardly suprising that the conviction rate for rape is about 6.5%

[BooyFuckingHoo]

thank you not. i am not sorry, it taught me alot. it wasn't pleasant but i am not emotionally hurt by it. it made me angry and i have used the anger to make myself speak out more, even jsut in everyday conversations about not accepting taht behaviour jsut becasue you are female.

[notjustapotforsoup]

Good for you! I do too. I try and think of it as playing the long game, because short term it can make things difficult with people I know. But at least they know that they will get a sympathetic ear from me if anything ever happens to them in the future. Also, if we (as a society) think that bodily integrity is important and violations of it are unacceptable, then we should make that clear to the fuckwits who continue to cross the boundary. Boundaries are nothing without consequences.

and yes, thefinerthingsinlife, that is one reason why the conviction rate is low. And why so few people will even report a rape, let alone see it go to trial.

[Omg20]

58% of rape cases are convicted if they make it to court. I really wish people would stop reporting the lower conviction rate and instead tell people about the higher court one. The reason it is low is because the victims are discouraged from seeing the complaint right through to the end. If you ever are ever a victim take it straight to court don't withdraw the complaint because people say the conviction rate is low. I may be a man but I have a mum, 2 daughters, a wife, a sister and many many other female relatives and friends and I would rather these bastards be off the street in jail than be free to do it to someone else. I honestly believe that taking the suggestions in this report onboard in full it the only way to solve this problem.

I put the same post on another thread and herbex I think it was told me that a review looked into to it and I managed to find it.

"Baroness Stern also highlights the need to better explain often complicated
statistics relating to rape. For example, the frequently reported headline
figure of 6.5 per cent of reported rapes resulting in a conviction is
misleading and can even act as a deterrent to reporting. It is also out of
step with how conviction rates for other crimes are reported ? a more
comparable statistic is 58 per cent of cases prosecuted as rape cases,
including guilty pleas, result in a conviction for rape or another offence.
55 per cent of jury trials result in a conviction."

You may also find this part of the report helpful.

Public Attitudes
? The vast majority of people (81per cent) do not think the courts are
too severe with men found guilty of rape
? The vast majority of people (85per cent) strongly disagree with the
assertion that if a women is raped it is usually her own fault
? Women are more likely than men to think they would report rape to the police
? Most people (71per cent) support custodial sentences for rape
(All findings from the 2010 Attitudes to Rape survey)

Link to the full report and government response

I would be interested in what everyone else thought about this report and the suggestions.

[HerBeX]

Yes but 90% of reported cased don't make it to court OMG, and it's not just because women give up because they are too idle to take it forward, it's because they are strongly discouraged from doing so by the police and the CPS and the way rapes are handled before they get to court. Most of the rape cases which get to court at all, are the classic ie rare stranger in a dark alley or breaking into your house cases.

And that's the reported cases. We know that between 50-90% of cases aren't even reported.

So this 58% figure, which sounds so optimistic, is just a drop in the ocean when you compare it to the amount of rape which is actually going on.

If this rapist had raped his girlfriend instead of the other woman, chances are the case wouldn't have got to court at all.

[HerBeX]

That's if she bothered to report it, knowing that she's unlikely to get justice.

[HerBeX]

The reason people focus on the lower conviction rate instead of the higher one, is because it is a better reflection of the truth.

And the worst thing is, it doesn't go far enough - the true conviction figure is far lower than 6% when you take into account the fact that the vast majority of rapes aren't ever reported.

So we're really not being glass half empty here.

[HerBeX]

My response to the statistics you quote about public attitudes to rape, is that although they superficially sound encouraging, I would bet good money on them being related to what most people think of as rape - being dragged down a dark alley by a total stranger. I think that accounts for something like 7 0r 8% of rapes doesn't it? Don't know the exact figures, but it's certainly less than 10%.

Public attitudes to the majority of rapes - IE those carried out be someone you know - are very, very different. When people are asked about rape, they don't think of the sort of case like this one, where the bloke is drunk, or a date rape, or the rape of a girlfriend - they are thinking of strangers in dark alleys. Which isn't very helpful, because most of us who are raped, are raped by men we know or have at least met within the last 12 hours.

[LadyBiscuit]

Omg30 - 58% of the ones that make it to court is a crap stat. Most of those are going to be stranger rape I'm afraid.

I didn't bother to report my rapist because I was dating him and I invited him into my home. That's when most rapes happen. And although you are prepared to give the women in your life your support, the courts won't.

That's the battle.

[thefinerthingsinlife]

Thyank you Herbex, you've put it far better than I would have