How can I report this man?

(52 Posts)
jellyrolly Sat 16-Mar-13 20:56:47

I was at a good friend's wedding and one of the guest's husbands was really drunk. He tried to grope me on the dance floor and I thumped him, so far so wedding party. As I left the dance floor the bride's sister had seen him try and grope me and told me he had just asked her DD to go to the toilets with him while making a lewd hand gesture to her. Thank goodness she was able to say no, she is only 9, and told her mum. She was really upset and started crying. He then asked another young girl to go with him to the toilet and a different boy, only aged about 10, stopped her from going with him.

It sounds ridiculous now but we didn't want to cause a fight or a scene and ruin the wedding party so he wasn't confronted by anyone. His own wife was mortified but I don't think she knew he had approached children, just that he was being a complete w&*ker. They have a five year old DD. I can't do nothing but I don't know what to do. I don't even know his full name. Again, it sounds stupid but I don't want to tell the bride what happened to her niece on her wedding day. She knows he was lewd to adult guests but this is a different matter. We spoke the next day and she was really upset that he had ruined the day, and that was based on what she did know.

I have sent a text to the bride's sister but she hasn't replied, I don't want to upset her further, maybe she just wants to forget about it but I can't. WWYD?

Coconutty Sat 16-Mar-13 21:02:18

To be honest, this is so serious in my eyes that I think you are going to have to ask the bride for his details and then I would call your local police station and tell them all of the above.

Hassled Sat 16-Mar-13 21:06:01

What coconutty said.
Horrible for you - I'm sorry.

Ledkr Sat 16-Mar-13 21:07:38

I totally agree. He needs to be reported and I'm shocked the mother of the 9 yr old didn't.
I'm not going to say what dh would have done if that was our dd.

MummyNoName Sat 16-Mar-13 21:09:33

Drunk or not, there's no logical explanation for an adult male to be inviting children into the toilets.

Go to the police.

jellyrolly Sat 16-Mar-13 21:13:06

I think I have to too. I just needed to 'say' it all. The mother of the 9 yr old was so shocked, I think she will be getting more and more upset and angry as the shock wears off. I just want to make sure I handle it properly, the idea of upsetting the girl more is awful, making her go over it etc. but I know that isn't enough of a reason to say nothing. I suppose I want permission from her mother to pursue this with the police as it is her and her child who will have to make formal statements. I can't believe she won't or possibly hasn't already. Her DH wanted to kill him but she stopped him as it was her sister's wedding day, I think she did the right thing stopping him as it would have been used against them.

Sarahplane Sat 16-Mar-13 21:33:21

I think you definitely need to report this to the police. I don't think the drink is to blame, alcohol does not make people prey on children. It seems like he was just more obvious because he was drunk so hopefully you reporting him now can prevent him being able to do anything worse.

jellyrolly Sat 16-Mar-13 21:45:23

Thank you for your replies. I don't know how these processes work, whether my word is enough? Or whether the children involved or their parents have to report it. I suppose you just have to trust the police. There is a pc on the school run I might ask their advice. The bride is on her honeymoon so I can't get the full name until they come back which give me time to figure out the best way to do this.

idiot55 Sat 16-Mar-13 21:50:32

I would phone the non emergency police number and explain the situation, you might not need to do anythig else.

MummyNoName Sat 16-Mar-13 21:54:23

I'd report it ASAP just so everything is remembered and nothing is forgotten by those involved.

jellyrolly Sat 16-Mar-13 22:04:34

That is a good point MummyNoName. I am going to write down what I remember. I only know his first name without talking to the bride so I don't know if there is anything I can do straight away.

Quilty Sun 17-Mar-13 08:24:55

As others have said I think you need to make a report to the police ASAP. No amount of drunkenness excuses that behaviour. What if one of the children had actually followed him? He might well of been all talk with the alcohol and who knows whether he would of actually done anything or not but you can't take that risk. To make suggestions like that to children is criminal enough in my opinion. The fact that it happened at least twice that you know of makes all the more disturbing. Feel very sorry for whoever his wife is; vile man.

I think the police would be very interested to take a look at his computer...

Wishfulmakeupping Sun 17-Mar-13 08:32:17

You are right OPthos needs reporting- aside from bride and her sister is there anyone else from the wedding party you could contact? You are doing the right thing- must have been awful though hope you and the little girls are ok this is terrible

tribpot Sun 17-Mar-13 08:39:16

Are you the witness to the advance made to the second little girl, the where the 10 year old boy stopped her from going with him? Or is this what the mother of the 9-year-old told you? I only ask because obviously it is better reported by those who directly witnessed events, and I don't know if you saw any first hand or you were told about them.

I'm afraid I think the bride's sensibilities need to come second; this man needs to be reported to the police as soon as possible.

jellyrolly Sun 17-Mar-13 10:16:17

I wasn't tribpot, the boy was the brother of the first little girl - he told his mum. I think it really needs to come from her, I know her reasonably well and have sent her a message but she hasn't replied yet. At the very least I want to warn her that I have reported him as I imagine the police will want to speak to her and her children.

The bride will agree with that, I think we were so shocked and you get in the mindset of not upsetting the bride at the time, it's stupid really.

I don't know who else I could contact wishful, it's awkward as this man and his partner are in a big friendship group I'm not in. You just don't know how people are going to react. There's The Right Thing, then there's Real Life.

tribpot Sun 17-Mar-13 12:35:57

So the bride's sister is really the one who should go to the police - all the info you have comes from her. However, I think you're right that your responsibility is to report and notify her that you have done so.

I can see how any attempt at a confrontation at the wedding could have ended even more badly - it sounds like a lot of booze had been consumed and it would have turned violent. But in the sober light of day, this needs airing. The friendship group may close ranks around the guy (although frankly I think that's pretty unlikely when this involves children) but what's the alternative? Potentially discovering years later that you should have reported it and didn't.

I must say I feel sorry for the bride, what an absolutely shit wedding day.

Just to add my twopence worth, I do think you need to contact the non-emergency number and get things moving.

Are you OK? It's not nice to be groped and must feel even worse knowing what you do now about this sleazy man

jellyrolly Sun 17-Mar-13 14:12:08

This is what I was afraid of - the bride's sister has now said she doesn't want to take it any further as she doesn't want her children upset (or her sister). I do understand her protecting them but am so disappointed. She thinks his partner has been told and may do something about it but I think that is even less likely. I want to respect her decision as ultimately I have nothing to report without her back up but what to do now? I would be straight round to the police if anyone did that to my children. I'm going to speak to the bride when she comes back from her honeymoon, she was upset about the behaviour that she knew about so will definitely bring it up with me.

Roshbegosh Sun 17-Mar-13 14:16:22

What a terrible situation, you could well end up being labelled the bad guy who spoilt the wedding. It is something whistle blowers face sadly. Good luck!

jellyrolly Sun 17-Mar-13 14:35:24

I know, the message from bride's sister was distinctly chilly. I don't even know this guy's surname or where he lives. I hope she will think differently when she has had more time.

wrongsideoftheroad Sun 17-Mar-13 14:44:12

Are the bride and her sister on facebook? Can you look through their friends lists and see if you can spot him?

You say he tried to grope you - what did that involve? By that I mean, is it possible for you to report what he did to you and then tell the police?

Quite a long time ago I worked in crime recording and I know there was a change in the law which meant that the police are duty bound to record a third party report of crime and then track down the victim to find out if they are willing to pursue it. I would imagine this is still this case so if you give them the details they will have to track down this little girl's mother.

Now, I understand that you don't want to create upset with the bride and her sister but what this man has done is far, far more important than how a bride feels about her wedding day. His behaviour can't be covered up/condoned. It just can't.

Good luck, I wouldn't want to be in your shoes but you know what you need to do.

wrongsideoftheroad Sun 17-Mar-13 14:45:27

Sorry..meant to say that perhaps the bride's sister will decide to pursue it after all if approached by police and she sees how serious it is.

jellyrolly Sun 17-Mar-13 15:06:30

They aren't on facebook, I was going to try and get his name from the bride when I see her.

Basically I told the mother of the girl that I wanted to go to the police and she has asked me not to, she will not take it any further with the police. I hope she will change her mind. I don't know her that well but I can't understand how people let this go on, especially mothers themselves. In my opinion, if what she has told me is accurate, then there is no doubt about his man's intentions.

wrongsideoftheroad Sun 17-Mar-13 15:19:59

I agree with you.

Horrible position for you to be in sad

You must speak to the bride though, do you know her well? Will she be sympathetic? I just wondered, actually...if the guy has a 5 yr old daughter should you speak to social services? Obviously you'd need to know his name first though..

lilly40 Sun 17-Mar-13 15:24:32

If you don't want to openly report him to anyone at the wedding, find out his name any which way you can, and report him to crimestoppers. This man is a danger to children, and who knows what kind of danger his own daughter could be in.

I can understand you not wanting to spoil the memory of the wedding for the bride, but, children are involved, who have been put at risk of abuse, and his daughter could be being abused herself. Horrible situation, but, ultimately, can be solved without you incriminating yourself if you don't want to. Or you could ring NSPCC helpline or go on to their website and find out how to report someone.

Good luck x

jellyrolly Sun 17-Mar-13 15:24:36

He said he wanted to spank me on the bum, I told him if he did I would hit him. He tried to grab my bum, I hit him, more of a shove really but he got the point. Not enough to report there, I imagine most of the women there had a similar exchange with him, vile drunk man.

jellyrolly Sun 17-Mar-13 15:26:24

I am sure I can find out his name and do this anonymously. Everyone saw his general behaviour.

jellyrolly Sun 17-Mar-13 15:29:06

Sorry, cross posting.

Yes I do know the bride very well, the problem is her sister doesn't want her to know about what happened with her niece and it is for her to report ultimately. They are quite a feisty pair of sisters! Women become steely to protect their own, I don't think she would respond to the police if she had decided not to.

wrongsideoftheroad Sun 17-Mar-13 15:33:47

What about the other little girl...do you know who she was/who her parents are? Would she have said something to her parents?

ihearsounds Sun 17-Mar-13 15:37:11

I would actually now call the mum and tell her straight. How would she feel in however long, his pic and name are plastered all over the media because he has done things to other children. It's because people don't report little incidents, that people are able to continue to commit further crimes. Explain that you were giving her the courtesy to make a complaint herself, but you cannot sit back knowing what you know, because that makes you also complacent.

The police in these incidents are all specially trained, and know how to question children with minimum of upset. It's not sitting in an interview room, with police firing questions. But in specialist rooms, and having a chat, which is recorded.

tribpot Sun 17-Mar-13 15:38:36

I can see how from her perspective:
- nothing actually 'happened', her daughter was frightened but that could be as much about having a drunken adult close to her as much as anything
- reporting the man to the police will be very difficult for his wife, and possibly all for nothing if the police decide not to pursue it for lack of evidence (after she's asked her children to recount the events, however sensitively the police handle it)
- she will then look as if she's overreacted to what was 'just' poor behaviour at a party.

EXCEPT

- this is in no way normal drunk behaviour.
- what if he is already abusing children, or is getting ready to?

If the mother of the girl chooses not to take it further with the police, that's on her. And presumably the mother of the other girl has been informed so she can make her own choice too .. or is that being brushed under the carpet as well? (I appreciate you can notify the other mother as you have no idea who the second child was).

But I think if I were you, I would do as MakeCakes suggests and get things rolling. For one simple reason: you've admitted to the bride's sister that you want to go to the police. I have a feeling this may be the start of ranks being closed against you and you getting pressure from all quarters not to go to the police - from the bride when she's back, god knows even from the wife. I would take that pressure out of the equation; tell the police what you know (which is not a great deal on its own - hearsay about someone whose surname you don't know). That way it's out of your hands and the police can determine the appropriate next steps.

Don't leave this up to the child's mother. She's leaving it up to the wife. Everyone has an excellent reason to believe someone else will deal with it - which is exactly how abuse can go on under people's noses.

edam Sun 17-Mar-13 15:49:56

What a horrible situation. It's a shame that you seem to be out on a limb here, with the bride's sister trying to forget it; but it is so extremely dangerous behaviour that it does need to be reported. Being drunk doesn't make an ordinary man try to persuade two different children to go to the loo with him. That's bizarre - I can't see any way that it could be innocent or just normal drunken stupidity.

I can kind of see why the bride's sister doesn't want to report it. But that's shrinking from a duty. She has a duty to any other child this man comes into contact with, particularly his own little girl.

YellowandGreenandRedandBlue Sun 17-Mar-13 15:52:17

Could you call NSPCC for advice? They deal with many anonymous reports and will know what to suggest.

SucksToBeMe Sun 17-Mar-13 15:59:46

I'm glad you are chasing this up. A few years ago in my OH home country I noticed one of his friends was too friendly with the younger children. He was always around, and he sent my hackles up every time he was near children. I would always intercept any contact he initiated with my 3 yr old. OH said I was overreacting.
Over Xmas I heard from my sister in law that she walked into a room at a family party and he was holding her DD and W*****g.
I am so disappointed in myself for not making a bigger deal of the way I felt.

wrongsideoftheroad Sun 17-Mar-13 17:23:20

Suckstobeme, that is horrifying.

NSPCC is a good idea.

jellyrolly Sun 17-Mar-13 20:19:15

I think I do know who the other child was but don't know their parents. NSPCC is a good idea for advice. I absolutely agree that everyone passing the buck is how people get away with this. I don't believe this can be the first or last evidence of his behaviour or intent.

AuntieMaggie Sun 17-Mar-13 20:22:45

Can you report what you know and let the police follow up in finding out his surname and talking to the parents of the children involved?

jellyrolly Sun 17-Mar-13 20:27:44

I'm going to seek some more advice first, I don't want to get this wrong as I think a lot is at stake. I have a friend who is a police officer and also think the NSPCC could advise. I do want to respect the girl's mother but I can't do nothing.

BettySuarez Sun 17-Mar-13 20:53:17

OP you are trying to analyse what you have seen and heard and trying to work out whether this man is a threat or not.

With respect, it's not your decision.

You need to report this man immediately to the police and let them decide the best way forward.

Stop trying to over analyse this.

One of the reasons why abusers get away with this is because other people don't want to interfere or make a fuss. Please don't be that person.

jellyrolly Sun 17-Mar-13 21:18:19

In my opinion I think he is a threat. My hesitation is that I don't know his name, where he lives or anything else about him and the person who was affected has stated she doesn't want to speak to the police. I'm not that person who doesn't want to interfere or make a fuss, I am finding myself up against those people and am seeking advice about how to best deal with it. I'm at a loss as to how to report a man whose first name is the only thing I know about him.

wrongsideoftheroad Sun 17-Mar-13 21:20:45

Do you know anyone else who was at the wedding? Can you ask around for his name? You said it was a big friendship group he was part of - how do they all know each other?

jellyrolly Sun 17-Mar-13 21:27:19

I only know the bride well, the other group are friends of hers who I have seen at parties over the years, I don't know them to contact. I have looked for them on facebook but got nowhere with that.

BettySuarez Sun 17-Mar-13 21:39:28

I really don't envy you being in this position but as I said before, let the police deal with this. They will be able to find out the name of this man (trust me, they will).

I think that you have then done all you can do (and all you should do).

Try not to over-think this, there's no point. Just report everything you know and the take a step back x

Please report it, other children will be in danger, possibly including his 5-year-old

jellyrolly Sun 17-Mar-13 21:47:16

Yes I am very tired and beginning to think I am a detective. I will call them in the morning.

tribpot Sun 17-Mar-13 22:08:36

You can only report what you know. Let the police take it from there. If the bride's sister denies it when they ask her - she'll have to live with that. But you will at least have done what you can.

Quilty Mon 18-Mar-13 10:50:04

Once you report an incident it will be given a case number, I think you should report only what you know so far and if you find out his surname you can always ring again and give further details to add to your report. Don't worry about finding out more about him before phoning the police, just report what you witnessed including his behaviour towards you. You're doing the right thing.

wrongsideoftheroad Mon 18-Mar-13 13:26:30

How are you today jellyroll? Hope you're ok.

gobbin Sat 23-Mar-13 10:29:34

In our safeguarding training in work we are told that we should always pass information on if someone makes a disclosure or even if we're uneasy about a child/situation and to write down what was said/done and report it that day.

The overriding importance is the safety of the child/children and in this situation there are clearly children who have been exposed to risk and potentially other children too.

Taking all this into account, I would be ignoring the wishes of the mother, it's not just her call on this. I'd be ringing police non-emerg and reporting everything I'd seen /heard said and leave it to those who can deal with it. Stress that, whilst you could handle his inappropriate advances, it's what he sounds to have done next that concerned you.

Otherwise, you will be burdened with nagging doubt for a long time to come.

whatsleep Mon 15-Apr-13 18:58:34

Definitely report it, what I find worrying is the the thought that maybe he was not discrete about his behaviour of trying lure young children into the toilets with him, because he was drunk. When he is not drunk I.e in every day life, does he also hunt out children for unthinkable reasons?

Pixieonthemoor Thu 18-Apr-13 18:35:22

Goodness this is making the hairs on the back of my neck stand up! Was it a traditional type wedding? The reason I ask is that maybe you can approach the brides parents as maybe they have the mailing list for the guests or even a thank you letter by now for this mans name. I agree with the pp's - I do think you should report him. Lewd behaviour with adult women makes him a drunken tosspot. Approaching 9 yr olds for a hand job in the loos makes him a paedohile. God I would have ripped him limb from limb.

tb Thu 02-May-13 09:59:55

Maybe the child's mother has her own reasons for not wanting it reported, you never know.

FWIW, my own mother actively procured me to be abused. Not every mother is a member of the 'nest of vipers' brigade like mnetters grin

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