Death's End SPOILER thread

[CoteDAzur]

I just finished Death's End. Anyone up to discussing it?

[wiltingfast]

Cote, you realise this is the end of science fiction. All future efforts are futile

[CoteDAzur]

I know

I won't be able to read SF until I forget Death's End enough that I can enjoy lesser stuff.

[CoteDAzur]

Lots in this book were fascinating, but my personal favorite was how author explains dark matter as parts of the universe where space has collapsed from 3D to 2D.

Would 2D universe have gravity, though? I thought gravity curved spacetime. What do you think?

[wiltingfast]

cote , I love that you think I might have an opinion on that you need someone much sciencier to ask that kind of question of.

I've no idea. I was totally aghast at the idea that the dark forest was so feral that other species would willingly sow their own destruction just to stop another civilization now.

[wiltingfast]

wtf did you make of Cheng Xin???

[wiltingfast]

I was practically screaming at her to pull the trigger....

am clearly a merciless cow.

[CoteDAzur]

Swoldholder trigger?

Only a sociopath like Wade or a single-minded person like the previous Swoldholder (can't remember name) would actually do it, though. It makes no sense to commit suicide because you promised you would.

[CoteDAzur]

Weren't the 3 stories fantastic? I kept wondering what the turning umbrella meant. You know, the one that keeps the "magic" of being imprisoned in a picture from working.

[wiltingfast]

o dear I definitely wanted her to pull the trigger.

As for the umbrella, ... again, I'm clueless. You must have some notion? Must be something to do with the special black rocks? Some quality about them and movement?

Or how about the perception trick? The son that couldn't be copied because he couldn't be perceived properly by the artist guy. They never came back to that. If they'd solved that one, the impression I had was they might have be able to defend against the paper plane attack. But then in the book, it does not appear anyone has figured out how to defend against these dimensional attacks, since the universe is being destroyed by them.

It really sets up male v female too don't you think? When the human race is weaker, it is more feminine. It is the men who are effective wallfacers and swordholders. It is a man who triggers the cosmic signal. It frustrated me with her no end while reading, but by the end you felt maybe she was right to do as she did. Humanity lived in accordance with its values and dreams. Even if that did lead to early destruction.

That theme of human values resonates throughout the books. The image we have of the civilization that destroys humanity is of a v limited, narrow and controlled one. The person who shoots, has little or no larger concept of what is going on, his mind his open to the Elder, he takes no time to consider the morality of his actions. Also, that civilization seemed to be contemplating a voluntary reduction to a 2D state. It is surviving but at what cost?

[wiltingfast]

Or how about the piece where it was impossible to store anything long term other than carved into stone !!!

I loved that.

[CoteDAzur]

Yes I loved that, too!

[CoteDAzur]

The book did come back to the whole looking the same size regardless of how close/far someone is. I don't remember what it was, though.

I think it was Tianming, the guy who was sent off to live with Trisolarans.

[wiltingfast]

I'd have loved to have heard his story.

[CoteDAzur]

Yes, that was my one gripe with the book. That they got so close but couldn't meet again was a big disappointment.

[wiltingfast]

And what the hell happened to him. Where did he go. How did he come up with the fairy tales???

[CoteDAzur]

Well, he wasn't allowed to give any such details, was he.

I thought the stories were genius. I really like this author's style. So contemplative. The whole Wallfacer thing was fantastic.

[CoteDAzur]

I didn't get a male vs female vibe from it, funny enough.

It is not surprising that a long period of peace and prosperity leads to a less masculine culture. Look at how androgynous men are now, compared to the Middle Ages.

I also didn't think it strange that the first & successful Swordholder was a man and that the woman did not press the kill button that would mean certain death for both Trisolaran AND human races. Actually, I don't think the earlier Swordholder would have pressed the button when it came to it, either.

[wiltingfast]

Yes, but I meant the author could have told us a bit more about him and his story.

Maybe he's saving it for another book! please please please

But all races die in the end cote. Plus the button was pressed and if they had figured out 2d attack, they might have survived it.

Plus Ching xin and the feminisation of the culture led to a failure to explore light speed travel, which would also have facilitated a longer survival.

The trisolarans survived longer presumably as well though I guess we don't really know.

I think pressing the button was in fact the only option as the human race was doomed either way.

[CoteDAzur]

Didn't I read that there is going to be a 4th book out soon? Can't wait

[CoteDAzur]

"all races die in the end"

Well, yes, millions of years in the future. I don't think that is something most people worry about on a day-to-day basis. Like, we don't worry that the sun is going to become a red giant and fry Earth in the process.

I thought it was a bit too much of a coincidence that Cheng Xin's ship was the only one in the entire solar system capable of light speed travel.

[wiltingfast]

yeah, some of the coincidences do not bear too much scrutiny. I suppose an author has to move the story on somehow! Tianming was awfully able for a brain lost in space and picked up by hostile aliens...

A 4th book?! Really? Given the universe ended in this one, wasn't really expecting another!!

[CoteDAzur]

I hear ya. End of the universe sounds like, um, The End.

[boldlygoingsomewhere]

I've finished! I loved, loved, loved this series. I agree that there were a couple of things which I would have loved to see explained.

I found her so frustrating as a wallfacer - I really wanted her to be more bold - especially in the final meeting with Wade. I just knew that it was obviously crucial and she was missing it again!

The stories of Tianming were brilliant and it would have been good to have some of those elements explained. I kept thinking that there must have been something in their names.

The dark forest idea was so bleak though.

[CoteDAzur]

Dark Forest idea actually sounds like a really good explanation for the Fermi Paradox re why we can see no sign of alien intelligence despite a seemingly unlimited number of worlds where intelligent life can develop.

[boldlygoingsomewhere]

Oh yes, as a theory to explain the seeming lack of intelligent life, it really works. Thinking more about the umbrella that safeguarded against the 2D collapse - it was supposed to come from the same place as the soap and other wonders in the no-story world. Was it the same black stone which ironed the snow paper flat? So something that enabled the 2D collapse to work also prevented it from happening?

Do you think that the eventual morphing into a no-story world was a metaphor for being shrouded in the black hole -nothing could get in or out so no more contact with other civilisations?